Sahuarita, Arizona

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to see you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. pointing back to our police department. It points to a lack of credibility that the jurors had with our police department. People are inclined to believe authority. It takes a lot of work to erode that trust and that ties back to gross lacks of judgment. I want the police to have less rules and regulations. I want them to use their judgment but hand in hand with that is their proven track record of showing good judgment. We know why you have rules . It's because of experience of showing bad judgment in the past. When we see the police chief Nolan use that gross lack of judgment when he chose to go in, escalate a scenario, throwing someone down last year, it's completely appropriate for the police to use force when they're using good judgment, when they're using it to keep the public safe, when they're using it against people that are resisting arrest. But this is the police chief going in, grabbing someone and throwing them to the floor. It's him showing intent to damage that person's property. And when we live with that in our community, a police chief teaching his trainees and his force that the police do not have to show respect for people's property, then that's a huge erosion of trust. And we'll see more and more issues like this in the future. When they have lack of good judgment, when they show unfair ness in their policing, it erodes convictions. It doesn't matter who the subject is. It's how the police are conducting themselves. When they are fair, then that leads to better convictions. We can see that in trials. When CLOPs are more interested in body slams and property damage, it gets in the way of safety. Can I say this? Thank you. Thank you. Peter Gallegos and then Diane Chipton. Thank you. We live in Green Valley. We've been here a couple of years. Can I hear you? Just speaking to the mic so that everybody can hear. Oh, okay. There you go. Thank you very much for the opportunity, firstly. We've been here a couple of years. We live in Green Valley. Here's the line. But one of the things that strikes me, just, it's almost b affling, how everyone seems to look, not this group, but the state as a whole looks upon its resources as if we live in 1870. It's nothing but exploitation. And nobody lives here, and there's nothing but cactus, and it is a totally different world today. And I walked in this evening, and I saw your photograph there of the lake and the mountains. It's a beautiful setting. And read your mission statement to the town, see your mural back there. And it's all about the beauty and the mountains and the natural, just sort of reverence of this area. And things are on the cusp of total destruction of that. Whatever plans you may have had for Sarita, that's going to be history as soon as the mine is there. You're going to have nothing but slag and pollution and run off. And then you can look back and say that was the legacy that we created. You know, if money is the only thing that matters, if that 's the god that this community wants to worship, then why stop at this? Why stop at just the destruction of the mountains? Why not invite other states to dump their containers of plastic that we can bury? Or, you know, radioactive waste material? You know, why don't we become the junk pile of other communities? You know, it's horrifying, really, just the potential of this. And I would ask the council to very deeply and reverently consider just what might happen and the consequences of that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Diane Tipton. And then the remaining cards will be for the agenda items coming up. Finish strong, Diane. Good evening. Good evening. It's me again. First of all, I'd like to thank Shane for having a meeting with me. He threw a lot of information at me. My brain processes stuff slowly. But thank you, Shane. I thought you handled that really, really well. Well, thank you. Anyway, he explained to me the town's decision on the water pipeline to the mine. But things have changed for this state. The drought has changed the whole picture of water in this state. And the whole picture now is everything's drying up. You can stop the water going to the mine. And I can see this with all the things going on with the Department of Interior. They stopped. They lessened the amount of water going to Lake Mead. Lake Mead is what brings water to Arizona, eastern Arizona. Tucson stopped 20% of the water going to Ajo. This mine is going to go into our aquifer. But if you stop the water now, I do firmly believe that the Bureau of Reclamation and Department of Interior is going to put a moratorium on pit mines that have not been dug yet . And so forcing, closing the water, making Copper World find a new way to get that water to them, I do really firmly believe by the end of next year that there will be a mor atorium on pit mines. And I'm asking you, please fix it before it's a problem. You know, if you let it be a problem, you know, an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. And now going on to the data center. Yesterday, Elon Musk said he's going to put data centers up in space. Look at what he did with Starlink, you know, because he can get sunlight to power the data centers. We don't need them on Earth anymore. And then this summer, a new company is coming out with data centers that will be generated by the movement of the ocean . We won't need data centers on the land anymore. You know, and we don't have the water. We don't live in an oasis. We live in a desert. We live in a desert that's drying out. You guys, not only are you responsible for our water, you 're responsible for the water for all the communities around us. And you're hurting people's lives. You know, people's wells are going to be drying up. They're already drying up. The aquifer is drying up. It's crumbling. You know, aquifer is just a big sponge. It's not like rye. Thank you. Anyway, it collapses like any sponge when it dries out. Please, please, we're all begging you, please just turn the water off and let the Department of Interior take care of it. Thank you. That's all the speaker cards I had for call to public. I do have other cards when we get to the agenda item. So I'll close the call to public and go to a brief summary of current events. Councilman Morales? Diane? Diane? So I had the pleasure of... Bring the mic a little bit closer to it, if you would. I had the pleasure of participating in the Ripple Fiber Rib bon Cutting event. Yep. Shoveled my pile of dirt along with the rest of the council and the dignitaries that were there. And we are welcoming a new fiber optic company beginning in Northern Rancho that will eventually spread throughout the town. Should we take a recess for... Yeah, we're going to take a five-minute recess to let the people leave that want to leave. So now you can chat for five minutes. What's that? Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Seats won't be as tight now. We're on to the brief summary of current events and Council member Priello, I'll have you continue. So there were three things. The first was the ribbon-cutting event for Ripple Fiber. The second was that the mayor and myself had lunch with Les Presmick, who is the Arizona mine inspector. And we raised with him concerns that were, have been expressed by our residents. And the mine inspector's sole role with the HUD Bay copper world is in the reclamation plan. And we have had, we are having ongoing discussions. And we are digging deep. And you are heard. We see you. We hear you. We are listening. We are acting. This is an example of it. This will be ongoing. The third thing that I did was that I had a great conversation with the Pima County Justice of Peace, Ray Carroll, who invited me to come and observe his DUI treatment court for cases that are being adjudicated for folks accused of being, you know, driving under the influence. And this has a direct correlation to an agenda item that we will be discussing. And then there was a fourth thing. I had a conversation with one of the Arizona commissioners with Kevin Thompson. So sharing concerns expressed in this room and learning the parameters of how the Arizona Corporation Commission approaches things like the concerns about the TEP line. And also if they had anything to do at all with HUD Bay. So you are being heard. We're listening. We're acting. We're exploring. It is not falling on deaf ears or an inactive counsel. Thank you. Vice Mayor. I've actually been out of town for work for several things. So I have not gone to any events. But I will say I love -- I hope you're celebrating and cheering on your favorite soccer team for the World Cup. And I will be team Brazil, team Argentina, and definitely team USA. Thank you. I also attended the -- well, council member list, before I forget, I always go last. So do you have anything you'd like to report? Yes. I just want to report that I think at the last meeting I mentioned that the civic craft is having their last session. So 10 months we've been in this leadership program. And this past Thursday we had our last session in Avondale. And I just want to say anyone that's thinking about being part of the civic craft, please do. It has been immensely important meeting people from around the state and just talking to your peers. It's been really a super experience. So thank you. That's all I have to report on. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you. And as council member Priolo said, a number of us attended the Ripple groundbreaking. Also, our local Rotary just had their installation of new officers. They're always looking for new members along with all the other service organizations. And also on Wednesday at 8 o'clock, the Walden, excuse me, the SHS, the SHS band is holding a send off thank you concert at the district. No, the field. Oh, stadium. Stadium. Stadium. Thank you. That was the word. Yeah, 8 p.m. Yeah, 8 p.m. Yeah, 8 p.m. on Wednesday night. Again, a sand off going. They're the only band being represented in Arizona for the 250th celebration in Philadelphia. And they really appreciate everybody's efforts to raise the money. They're pushing about 220,000 that they raised to get the kids, almost 100 of them, out to Philadelphia. And as been mentioned many times, our summer break starts tomorrow and we'll meet again on August 10th. And with that, Madam Clerk, item number 8. Round number 8 is the town manager's report highlighting employee and department accomplishments, milestones, capital improvement projects, development projects, and town events. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Normally at our second council meeting of the month, I usually present a little presentation on the manager's report for that month. Given what we have on the agenda tonight, I'm foregoing that, but I do want to acknowledge we had eight new seasonal employees hit parks and rec this past reporting period. So we welcome them wholeheartedly to our team, our family. I also want to recognize Gregory Moreno. He's with the court. He's a security for our court. He just passed his five-year mark with the town. And so we're grateful for his commitment and dedication to our town and the courts and keeping them safe over there. I also want to acknowledge that we've got our Stars and Stripes event right around the corner here, July 4th. It's 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM at the Anamax Park. Fireworks go off at 9:00 o'clock at the end of the celebration for the event. Also our next council meeting following tonight's meeting is scheduled for August 10th. Enjoy your summer break. And of course, we'll be in touch if anything comes up. I know that you've all generously offered to meet if we have to, but as we've done in years past, you have your summer break and we'll reconvene on August 10th. That's it for tonight. Thank you. Appreciate that. Item number nine is the consent agenda. And I've been asked to pull one of the items, 9F, off of that. So at this point, I would ask for a motion to approve the consent agenda, minus 9F, and then I'll take that up right after the consent agenda has been noted on. Mr. Mayor, so move with those changes. Do I have a second? I second. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor signify by aye. Aye. Aye. opposed the motion carries unanimously and madam clerk 9f please 9f is adoption of a resolution 20 26 0881 a license agreement with the pima county recorder's office for the installation operation and maintenance of a ballot drop box at town hall thank you councilmember priolo did you want to make a comment on that yes i did i am in opposition to this resolution i am concerned about election integrity and having a ballot drop box at town hall thank you um shane would you like to mr mr and on that yeah normally when an item is polled staff is offered an opportunity to introduce the item so that you know the public is is made aware of that so i'll i'll turn the time over to our clerk lisa yep and she'll walk the council through what this item is and the agreement that's in front of you for consideration tonight thank you so the agreement um in front of you this evening grants pima county the permission to install and operate a secure ballot drop box on town property we're proposing that the drop box be placed in the courtyard uh mid mid courtyard it would be a drive up drop box as well as a walk up drop box the box itself um we'll maintain the property and ensure unobstructed public access we'll also follow standard indem nification and compliance requirements the license follows the town council's direction at the apr il budget retreat authorizing staff to move forward with the installation of the ballot drop box so we 'll be coordinating with the pima county recorder to ensure you know that rules and regulations are followed um as required by law thank you can you just touch on a little bit about cameras or the installation process um security wise the type of anything you could enlighten so the we have we'll have two cameras one will be installed above the drop box in the drop box in the trees that'll be a trail type camera but we also have our camera that operates 24 hours a day that is attached to the outside of our building that also records in the courtyard area if anything happens we will be sharing data from the and images from the cameras as well as the cameras is needed with pima county recorder's office when the ballot boxes are emptied pima county does have a procedure where their staff will wear vests that identify who they are they also will send you know members of the opposite parties to empty those boxes and it will always be done in members of two the ballots that are pulled from the ballot box will all be secured while they're transported to the pima county quarters office for further processing thank you shane yeah thank you mayor thank you lisa um i just wanted to provide a little context this this kind of came to head for us when we had the special election in march and uh it was it was identified that the only the only drop-off locations for our our public uh was there were three locations up in tucson right so nobody had an option down here to drop off off their ballots and that was we we heard that um from a number of uh from a number of people and so we that's that's what spurred hey county you need to have a you need to have a place here whether it's whether it's here with us or it's at fries or someplace someplace for our our our um our voters to have an option to come and drop off here so that that's what that was the context behind this um and then again that was presented to council during your retreat and we were directed to move forward and here we are tonight thanks thank you yes um speak go on speaker dr uh mayor can i ask diana a question councilman pearl yeah um what is your reason for opposing it election integrity mr mr um mr mayor um i'd like to ask a question to lisa if we vote no this resolution is a resolution yeah um does not pass is pima county still going to put a drop box in our community just in a different location that i'm unsure of whether or not um they will go in and look for another location the location was chosen here just for voter convenience we do have during the election cycle many voters who come in and ask you know where the nearest dropbox is right okay well i i think it's a little more than that um the bottom line is staff doesn't know what the county will do if this doesn't pass it's a county kind of a county issue but we clearly heard that you know there was frustration by not having a place here locally for our voters to to participate yeah um now how big that frustration was i'm you know that's that's probably better for the council to determine what you guys heard and felt out there but the staff certainly felt it a little bit and so we brought that forward to the council for consideration during your budget retreat what's making this possible is because we have surveillance already here built in and and because we felt like this is something that the community was in support of and wanted we're we're kind of partnering with the county we're providing the spot and then we're helping with the installation making sure it's secured and um and i don't know i don't know if the county would be able to find those types of accommodations somewhere else so it would be up to the county to figure out if if this didn't pass if they would do something here or not probably don't have time for this election you know to you know to do something like that yeah i know when i heard um about it um because it was the rta election and not only did i hear about it and from sawarita because we had a lot of people who worked and couldn't get up to tucson in the hours if you remember they were pretty condensed and of course i heard a lot of it from green valley that a lot of them don't want to go north of pima mine road or go down into downtown tucson to try to figure out where to drop it off which i think spurred at least a little bit of the one half day of the mobile the rv that parked over at la viita community center but you know it was like 10 to 2 or something like that but it was you know an effort because a lot of people were pushing back on you know why are there only three locations and all of them in downtown tucson from that perspective so um you know i i understand the concern about voter integrity but i think at least what i 've learned about the anti-fishing mechanism within the box and then obviously having it in a secure location i think it does serve as a service to our community so yeah um i'm gonna have to find that one um okay thank you um mr mayor i move to adopt resolution number 2026-0881 i'll second that um any other comments before going to the vote all in favor signify by aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye aye uh forward forward to one four to one thank you appreciate everybody's input on that um madam clerk item 10 a discussion and possible action regarding the tucson electric power santa rita connection project and miss cassidy anna uh will be introducing this item and introducing representatives or represented no representatives plural um from tep uh on this item anna um actually mayor i'm gonna i'm gonna grab it real quick absolutely you kind of so anna will do the introductions um but i'm gonna kick this off uh you know we we've had a series of meetings we had a meeting on january 26th we also had a meeting on on may 11 th and um at those meetings and stemming from those meetings continued to be in um a lot of uh public criticism on transparency um that from from that criticism from the discussions that happened on those two dates uh and given mayor your your comment and direct question of tep and their direct response uh we we were asked by i believe it was council member lisk to see about getting tep back to the table and uh to essentially do a redo of your may 11th meeting now some things have transpired with the acc in that process and hopefully uh tep can explain what's transpired since your may meeting today with that process with acc but that was the spirit and intent of the the ask and staff has followed up with that to agendize this meeting this this item tonight at that request and basically uh we go you know go over that information again the options what bearing that has on this process i'll leave that to uh tep to explain but the idea and the spirit was to kind of do a redo of your may 11th meeting perhaps um you know ask different questions and um and probe wherever wherever you guys need to prove a probe as a council so right thank you before any um so what i'm planning on doing is um representatives from tep will present um after anna does some comments um if we if we have questions then we can ask those uh my colleagues then i'll open up call to the public to ask further questions when i close call to the public then it'll be back to the council um so if my colleagues during calls of the public if there are questions that are new or maybe haven't been covered please write those down because after i close close the call to the public then it'll be back to a conversation between staff tep and the council everybody okay on that thank you anna thank you shane thank you mayor murphy members of the council tonight we have two speakers here from tep at the microphone we have stephen eddie director of public affairs and with him is clark briner the manager of siting outreach and engagement thank you good evening steven excellent honorable mayor council members mr dilley thank you so much for having us here this evening for the record my name is stephen eddie i am the director of public affairs for tucson electric power uh and uh the address there is 88 east broadway tucson ari zona first and foremost i want to express my appreciation uh for the town's continued engagement on the san arita connection project i'd like to provide a few brief overview comments and clarify a few points before my colleague clark takes over and walks through a few details on the projects themselves let me start with what i think is the most important message there is no secret plan there is no backroom deal the san arita connection project is needed is a needed publicly reviewed infrastructure project designed to address real and growing reliability needs in the san arita and green valley area through our planning process we've identified multiple circuits serving thousands of customers that are ready already at or approaching their preferred operating limits with continued resi with continued residential and commercial growth expected this project is designed to improve redundancy reduce the risk of outages and ensure we can continue to serve the community as it grows and today so let me talk about the engagement with the town and the public process we've appreciated the town's engagement throughout this process including the opportunity for tp representatives to brief mayor and council on two separate occasions as mentioned by anna that dialogue has been valuable in ensuring the community has access to accurate information and a clear understanding of the project in addition it has provided the town to express input as part of the citing process the santa rita connection project has been developed through a very transparent and well established regulatory process this has included public outreach community meetings and formal testimony before the arizona power plant and transmission line sighting committee following that process the sighting committee committee unanimously approved both routes one and three and those recommendations have now been forwarded to the arizona corporation commission for their consideration and we expect uh their decision sometime later this summer as early as next month so let me address the connection between this project and copper world these are two very separate and distinct projects there has been a narrative suggesting that the santa rita connection project is part of a coordinated or backdoor effort to serve the mine that is simply not true these are two separate projects the rosemont 138 transmission line was approved in 2012 to serve a potential mining operation this line will be built only if hud bay the operator agrees to take service from tp and pay for the lines construction the santa rita con with that statement that be all the costs that is correct and i can provide a little bit more detail as part of the comments here mr mayor the santa rita connection project in the santa rita subst ation were identified independently through tp's planning process to address regional reliability and growth needs as i had mentioned earlier they will move forward regardless of the mining project that is the santa rita connection project and the subst ation while these projects are being built in the same area they are not the same project and one is not being built for the other there's been talk about co-location and mr dilley brought this up earlier and has been discussed so you will hear that facilities are being co-located in this presentation between myself and mr briner and i want to explain what that means in utility practice co- location is a standard and widely accepted utility practice it allows us to reduce land disturbance minimize environmental impacts avoid duplicative infrastructure and lower total project costs a portion of the santa rita connection project which is route three and again we'll bring this up on the maps here is being designed to co-locate with the santa cruz reliability project this is a new project i know this is new news but that is a part of our sister company unisource electric that serves santa cruz county that project was recently awarded 75 million dollars from the department of energy and again we'll talk on the co-location benefits between that line and the proposed santa rita connection project by coordinating infrastructure between these projects we reduce capital costs make make more efficient use of existing corridors and minimize impacts to the surrounding environment importantly each project plays its propays its proportional share for these shared facilities ensuring proper cost allocation while still capturing those efficiencies so let me talk about the cost responsibility in addressing those concerns there has also been concern that tp customers could subsid ize infrastructure for the mining project that is not the case the rosemont transmission line approved approval explicitly requires that the cost of constructing and operating that line be fully borne by the mining project these are conditions in that 2012 citing case that mr dilley has raised previously similarly any infrastructure that would be required specifically to serve the mine would be paid for by that customer not tep customers we are we understand fully that these are very complex projects that is the world of utility infrastructure and that when multiple projects are discussed together there can be confusion and so that is why we are here tonight to ensure that we are addressing any confusion between any of these projects we appreciate the town's continued engagement and the opportunity to be part of this conversation and with that i'll turn it over my colleague clark to run through the different projects welcome clark yep um can you take a couple of questions first before we go to clark sure absolutely thank you could you please explain to us what co-location is absolutely honorable mayor council member priolo um so we 'll actually touch on uh the benefits of co-location in this project but right you see this every day when you drive by and see a utility line you'll see our conductors on a line you'll also see uh communications equipment that is attached to those pole facilities that's co-location uh for uh electric utilities specifically and again we'll point out a picture that is co-locating two sets of conductors two lines uh on a shared pole and in this instance it could be unisource energy for that line down to santa cruz county or for the rosemont line that was approved in 2012. and i will make clear that right there are benefits to co-location for what i had just described but as it relates to our customer or our potential customer those costs will be fully borne by that customer and again is unique because it is ordered in those conditions for that line approval i i hope that addressed your question uh it did but i have some more please okay i heard you say and you did address the elephant in the room that this town council's been accused of lying and being in collusion and in cahoots with you and hud bay is it accurate if i was to say based on what you just shared that hud bay if hud bay opens and begins drawing electricity from you that they would be solely responsible for paying for their electricity and it would not spill over into rate increases for any of the constituents in this town is that accurate honorable mayor uh councilman or priolo so um won't get into the large complex area of rate design but um for any customer right we assign a tariff right and that could be a residential customer it could be a small business it could be a large load customer and so while we are still in conversations with that prospective customer they will be assigned a rate to ensure that they are paying their full share of utilizing the grid which again has been addressed in the conditions in the lion s iding agreement but in addition to the service that they will be provided as a potential customer could i piggy back off of you before you continue um so just to be clear um sorry clark you can sit down if you understand he's he's talking so yes um if hud bay was being built in west virginia would these two lines be in front of us right now um based on need capacity expansion so if hud bay wasn't even part of this picture would we or would not be having the same conversation on these two lines honorable mayor so we would be having this conversation for the santa cruz reliability project that is a needed project that we have identified through our planning processes so that project whether or not um a customer comes online uh in the future in the future we need that project to serve the current and future needs for this region which includes the town of saurita thank you yeah please yep and then we'll come back to you so i kind of feel like you went around diane's question we don't care about the santa cruz project everybody's concern is hud bay are our rates going to go up when you connect when you connect hud bay to to the lines here in saurita honorable mayor council member morales so again when we speak about general rate design so right and again i can't uh or when we speak in generalities of large load customers right the way in which rate design works you have residential users that often use electricity in various periods inconsistent periods so right the cost to serve residential customers is much higher because of the way in which that customer utilizes energy and right that is uh the rate that is assigned to residential customers is dictated by the tariffs that are approved by the arizona corporation commission through a rate setting process with respect to larger customers and again i can only speak to the existing customer base because again hud bay is a prospective customer of ours but when we talk about current large load customers uh they use the grid much differently right they are high load factor customers they are using energy energy generally at 24 7 and they are much cheaper to um to um pay for um in terms of a cost of service so ultimately with what they are paying into the rate base uh there is generally a subsidization of large load that's correct yeah yeah and again um i will be touching on sort of the rate making process a little bit later but those rates are all determined by the arizona corporation commission um and is set through a very rigorous regulatory process that includes uh testimony by uh representatives of the company scrutiny or testimony by other interveners in that case but then is ultimately decided by the arizona corporation commission so just to domify this what i'm hearing from you is if hud bay did not connect to this our rates will stay where they're at or i'm sure they're going to go up because inflation but with hud bay connecting now our rates are guaranteed to go up no i don't i'm sorry honorable mayor uh councilmember morales i i i'm apologize i did not say that um but uh uh i i think it's speculative to address what may or may not happen to rates with a particular customer um so again we can address uh the current rate case that we have uh before the commission do you see the position you're putting us in though us as council members because they don't believe what we're telling them so we're i'm asking you to be honest with them because they're not coming to you they're coming to us and they're blaming us and they want us to do something and it's not in our power to do anything so i think you need to be honest to them and let them know if their rates are going to go up or not because hud bay is connecting that's the main question we don't want to go around the question just give us a direct answer he said no mayor and council yes mayor council i i just wanted to point out we had we've invited tep here to present on both the project as well as the rate right um if if we if we can allow the project information to get through and then we'll focus our attention on the rates and the next item i think that just helps our focus with our conversation so if we can get through the project and um you know ask questions about maintenance costs and i mean get yourself geared up you know for the next conversation which is the rates i i think that would help us in terms of getting through the the agenda yep so honorable mayor council member morales i think what i will point out is that when you look at larger load customers right based on their energy demand they bring in much more revenue as compared to a smaller uh customer class so that increased revenue actually puts downward pressure on rates and so the need to if we are able to recover revenue uh from larger a large amount of customers that actually does put downward pressure on rates um i heard a presentation by the ceo of trico and he made that point that if and this was i think up in another jurisdiction um that if um they paid the higher load it was for a different type of project not mining um that that could actually extend the next rate case because of that high demand takes care of some of lack of a better term the overhead um and putting downward pressure on not having to go for another rate case sooner at least that's the uh is that kind of similar very similar models uh models uh models honorable mayor with respect to uh tr ico and tp though a little bit different there are some uh differences there right but you're absolutely correct um diane yeah yeah um keeping with the project then if it had anything you do with rates we'll wait for the next agenda i don't agree with that that's the first time i don't agree with that's the first time i don't agree with that we're not that we're not hearing you we're not seeing you we're not acting and nothing could be further than the truth so i'm going to continue asking you questions based on what i've been doing for my due diligence for you the constituents of this town who have grave concerns about water noise traffic health animals the destruction of the mountains we hear it all so i had a very good conversation with kevin thompson one of the arizona corporation commissioners to pick his brains part of my deep diving as i call it peeling the onion and my due diligence because you are heard you are seen we are listening and we are acting i want to lay that to rest so he explained something to me in a very simple way and i'd like to share here because i believe it might help and add clarity okay so he told me about and i i spoke with him specifically about we've got this issue with our constituents don't trust us don't believe us and think that we are in cahoots with you and hud bay and that their rates are going to be raised because we are lying to them and that we have this back room deal so he explained to me something about a line sighting committee that it was this large multitask group that studies requests for new power needs is that accurate my notes it studies new needs for power honorable requests for power honorable mayor council member priolo so uh with respect to the uh i mentioned it earlier the line siding committee so the line siding committee uh uh reviews new transmission and new generation projects that are being proposed throughout the state okay would hud bay be one of them so honorable mayor council member priolo so the line siding case that was approved in 2012 for the rosemont transmission line did go in front of that line siding committee and then ultimately the arizona corporation commission so that has been a completed um 2012 a completed for lack of a better term that's that shouldn't be you yeah that should yeah we'll fix it we'll turn it back on um that's a completed process for lack of a better term i guess honorable mayor yes that is correct that project was approved in 2012 uh it is still uh a recorded order at the arizona corporation commission so their last step is that if they want the mine to be served right then they'd have to come to you and write a check for all of the infrastructure needs or what would the next step be honorable mayor so right whenever any customer requests service we are obligated to serve um that is uh a constitutionally written uh law you don't like mcdonald's you can't say i want we have to serve any customer that requests service um so with respect to this customer uh they have requested service and as part of that order in 2012 for the transmission line there is the order for us to serve that customer uh i will state uh and again i'm not i don't want to speak for the customer but there have been facilities that have moved it's it's in a very unusual area within our uh certificated boundary in which we serve so right as you all know there is a portion of the town that is in tr ico uh and a portion that is in tp so there are some facilities that are in tps service territory like the trico uh switch yard that again we can touch on in the presentation which is in tp service territory but there are other facilities that are in tricos with that we will need to get a borderline agreement it's an agreement that is very common between utilities uh throughout the state where essentially we are agreeing to serve a customer that is outside tp's certificated boundary so that is still needed as part of this process to serve this potential customer and to piggyback off her question so the um this the santa rita connection where is that in the process of line sighting or uh whatever else you want me to just go go through this so and honorable mayor i'm sorry if you could please well no i was just saying because you you we were just talked about the rosemont project you know that's been completed outside of serving them um in 2012. um and i think i do agree with you that a lot of projects especially because they're both 138 kb lines i think there's a lot of confusion that's correct um and maybe this is what you 're getting to so we're in the process for the santa rita connection is are you in the is the choice between route one and route three part of the line sighting or has that even been completed and now we're to the next step in that process honorable mayor i think uh this slide will clearly illustrate in terms of where we're at uh with the santa rita connection project as well as how it relates with the other lines that i reference both the rosemont 138 line and the unisource santa cruz reliability project uh so route one uh i'm not done okay sorry i'm sorry i am not done continue thank you sir so kevin thompson arizona corporation commissioner said that typically and tell me if you agree with this if it's accurate if i heard him correctly as i was taking my notes that typically the full cost of electricity for a new developer rests with them as a cost of doing business so like what you said earlier hudbay would pay for hudbay's own electricity and the cost of hudbay doing business if that mine opens those rates the cost of the electricity for hudbay will not be passed on to other rate users honorable if it was clear just two two things because this is complex but he said there could be a potential shared costs if the overall grid is increased for customers so if there's some expansion because i did watch the presentation from the may 11th meeting i wasn't here i was absent but i did watch the video of it so i'm trying to wrap my mind around a very complex situation to try to walk a mile in your moccasin so i understand what you're saying and to put it in layman's language to make it simple so that folks anxiety can diminish because they're in fear and i hate seeing this i don't like being called a liar i don't like my integrity being impage but i also don't like when there's fear mongering and pot stirring and i think people need to calm down and please that's why i'm trying to speak simply and clearly and easy to understand language to wrap our minds around it so that hopefully people's anxiety can be or swage that their counsel's not a bunch of crooks and liars we're working we're hearing we're researching we're peeling onions i'm deep diving we're doing the work we're supposed to do so this is what was explained to me and this is in layman's terms and i found it helpful so i'd like to share it with you with the goal of bringing peace to your hearts because i feel your pain i see the fear i hear it in your voice it bothers me that that's what's being done here so what i understood was the only way it could potentially be a shared cost is if at the grid is overall is the size of the electrical grid is increased for customers outside of the development of this new business whether it's hudbay or some other new developer but a new developer pays the cost of their own electricity but if you hook in with another line and it expands the grid altogether and then the larger group of people benefit from it more juice in the system more electricity more services being provided in a wider range then the rate could potentially if it's approved be passed on to those customers that would benefit solely from that having nothing to do with the new developer if it was to be something like a hud bay am i stating it accurately was my understanding correct when i was trying to wrap my mind around it with this corporation commissioner honorable mayor councilmember pri elo so uh let me be clear uh this customer and again there are various facets to how we are serving this customer they will be paying their fair share for their service that they need hud bay hud bay they will bear the sole cost of it is that not accurate honorable mayor councilmember prielo yes that is correct and there are legal safeguards to ensure that that happens honorable mayor councilmember prielo we are heavily regulated by the heirs in a corporation commission in which uh all accounting including the tariffs that we set for our customers is scrutinized every time we go in front of the commission for a rape proceeding or any other type of uh contract arrangement is that what the 2012 agreement basically says that's the structure that the council member prio is um i think referring to is that the type of document that ensures that the cost of the the line the co-location if they're benefiting by one of the substations um that they're going to pay their pro rate of share of all of that even though it might be built ahead of time because i'm used to that from other water lines and things once a new user comes on they can claw back some of those benefits because they're going to um reap the benefits of that honorable mayor so again with respect to the infrastructure that's going to be needed to serve the mine uh that has all been approved in the 2012 line siding case and those conditions are very clear that that customer will be paying the full cost for that infrastructure related to their services uh we are still in talks with this potential customer there are still service agreements that need to be agreed to as part of serving this customer so that is it's it's speculative to i mean we are still in those talks with uh with that customer so those are still ongoing could you touch on what what what some of those conversations would be because if the process says you have to pay for all of that um what would the service agreement what would be the some of the sticking points or the conversation i i may have to get honorable mayor i may need to get back with you there is customer privacy information that we just need to be very mindful of so um again i know that may not help fully address the question but again we can't provide specific information on customers whether it's uh any customer for that matter so i just want to be very mindful and protective of that okay i have another question yeah let debbie go and then i'll be back to you so on on the photo there your black and green line it comes down to a v and then it turns um green and orange why isn't that black and green line just going across do you have that v2 benefit the cost of hud bay yep now you can stay up clark mayor murphy members of the council uh i wish i didn't get to speak um so the the whole purpose of that is it's actually not to benefit the mine it 's actually to benefit our customers so that maximizes our ability to co-locate these facilities so the line you're seeing that's in the in the orange and black checked that's uh the facility that stephen spoke about that would be shared with our sister company uns electric so on that portion uns electric would pay essentially for half of that facility tp would pay for half of that facility so why isn't it just going straight across instead of making that v let me explain that so the orange and green checked line is where this would be a shared facility with the rosemont 138 kv transmission line so in that case rosemont the line that was approved back in 2012 is basically that photo on the left that single circuit structure it's capable of of supporting another circuit so rosemont would be responsible for paying for that facility on the left the pole and the wires in this case we would then go and hang three three additional wires or conductors on that pole and the only responsibility of the tp normal customer would be to pay for those three wires so by going down to that v that you're speaking of it allows us to essentially reduce the costs of this project the san rita connection project which would be would be something that would benefit all customers it's a reliability project it's not for a single customer it allows us to keep those costs to a minimum both the capital costs as well as the long-term operations and maintenance costs so could i try debbie so the yellow line you know just say it was all solid that's all on rosemont right but because they can co-locate the green and black line on it it actually reduced the cost to the overall customer base because rosem ont's already paying for the western portion of that correct yeah so even though that's a longer route it's actually less expensive for tp customers than even the the magenta route right there that was the route three because that's a line that would have to be rebuilt to be a double circuit line and both of those circuits would be owned and paid for by tp and and only the residential rate payers by extension correct residential or whoever else is using it correct yep um mr mayor oh yes yes i like to ask the question so cl ark when we were first presented this map um the two routes on may 11th why didn't you just um distinguish those lines that you're now distinguishing that bottom where the v is because that would have helped a lot with us asking these questions yeah i guess the short answer that you weren't here yeah mayor murphy and member member lisk uh i i would say we do our best to try to communicate our messages clearly but sometimes we learn from mistakes and uh clearly we we could have done a better job of communicating that and to councilmember list's question oh can i just ask a follow-up to that kim yes um can you just go touch back on the grant a little bit because isn't that a secondary reason that because i had asked the question on the first meeting like why is the short line the more expensive one obviously that wasn't really touched on and i i didn't remember any conversation about a grant um but i think that is potentially another answer for why the green and the black one is cheaper unless i'm wrong so mayor murphy i'll i'll share an answer and then and then uh steven might might have some additional things so basically the grant it's a great thing for our customers in santa cruz county um that would help pay for that piece of the line the uns electric portion of that line but it wouldn't do anything to subsidize the tp portion of the line nonetheless still 50 is less than 100 and uh so that's how it benefits tp right okay yeah go ahead she says you know so go ahead kim and then yeah one more question so the line um i think it's through three wouldn't it be better for the line to be going from substation to substation as opposed to going from the subs i know it all goes to the substation but it's a more direct line as opposed to approximately or possibly that rose um rosemont v area could have a breakage and then how would that affect the rest of our customers yeah so all all the transmission lines they do go from point to point first so from substation to substation so even though you're kind of transferring from one structure that supports one circuit to another structure that supports another circuit uh the circuit we would be building is continuous between the son oran substation that's off the screen and the sanorita substation so it wouldn't affect customers and the reliability in any way thank you thank you diane okay sir your name is clark yes and your last name briner briner okay and then it's steven eddie or eddie eddie eddie eddie steven eddie okay so first i have questions for both of you i'm going somewhere with this so stay with me all right so um mr eddie are you aware of an ad that was in the newspaper from the the same to the sanorita mountains that accused tep and um that put out in in the public view their hype their position that there was a backdoor deal between this council tep and hudbay are you aware of an ad like that honorable mayor uh council member prelo yes i am aware of that okay so would i be safe using the vernacular to say that that is fake news honorable mayor council member prelo as i stated earlier at the beginning of my statement there is no backroom deal there is no collusion we operate in a very transparent process every plan every project every rate proposal goes through rigorous scrutiny from an elected public body but more importantly as noted previously as part of any line siding case or any rate case there is public comment and an opportunity for the public to provide their testimony uh on any matter of subjects so uh we have been very transparent about this project i i will piggy up on piggyback on clark's comment earlier there was an opportunity to provide a little bit more information to the earlier statement uh from earlier this year uh we um take credit for that we apologize uh but uh again we open we operate in a very transparent parent manner in all of our dealings and i um and i i'll let you but i want to piggyback off i know we're not to the rate case yet but since we're touching on some of the things um because i've been through a couple of those um isn't there a judge involved and you know we may have to touch on it two times that's okay uh i'm gonna be here till midnight probably anyways um so just touch on you know back to that transparency process i know there is a huge acc staff that has to work with your staff to prove you know all this stuff up um and then just can you just touch on quickly and we can go to it later but on how like a judge and there's like real testimony and everything that goes into it honorable mayor uh so speaking to rate cases yes that testimony is provided in front of an administrative law judge which then provides a recommended opinion uh to the commission that which then votes uh on uh that opinion that order and what if and what if you testified and you lied at that honorable mayor we are placed under oath thank you uh and if i may honorable mayor with respect to the line citing cases and clark may speak better to this than i but that is uh in front of a public body which the chairman is appointed by the attorney general uh and it is a full court proceeding with testimony uh sworn testimony uh which is then part of a record which then goes to the commission for a vote so it is a very rigorous transparent process and again uh the commission will be taking up this line citing case uh soon and so they will have their chance to deliberate and discuss the impacts of this line and ensure that there is clarity around this project and how it relates with other projects that uh have been discussed thank you continue okay um mr clark mclark i appreciate your answer to my fellow council member um ken lisk and i appreciate your saying that perhaps the last time things could have been stated more clearly so there wouldn't be confusion we give you grace i give you grace thank you and i'm asking for everybody in this room to give grace too because that little i won't even call it a mistake it was something that could have been done differently for greater clarity but there it was misconstru ed into a conspiracy that we were in cahoots with you and hud bay so i'm asking for grace there isn't anybody in this room that doesn't make a mistake that couldn't do something differently couldn't do something better but to accuse a bunch of good people who are working hard to do the right thing by this town of being crooks and dishonest council meeting after council meeting that's what's being hurled at us and it's not true and furthermore we don't have any authority whether hud bay opens or not is that true where is john he's probably taking a break i'm addressing the elephant in the room i'm addressing it that one i think we have to be careful on because the hud bay is not on the agenda teps line citing and great case and stuff i'll keep it to tep but suffice it to say i give you grace there's no problem we all make mistakes we all could do things differently we all could be clearer in our communication myself included so i ask for mutual grace when that happens but this council cares and there has been no collusion there have been no backdoor deals we are not liars crooks and cheaters and your rates aren't going to increase if hud bay opens up and starts drawing electricity hud bay pays for hud bay's electricity plain and simple and you are duty bound by all kinds of rules and regulations in your industry just like hud bay is in theirs just like we are sitting up here as your elected officials we are duty bound by our oath by the laws of arizona and by the ordin ances of the town yes and we all have to stay in our lane and do our duty within our lane um done okay uh continue on the that presentation if if you'd i don't want to be too redundant but i'm just going to back up on these slides and just i do want to make sure that we've uh does this back up there we go i just want to make sure that everything is crystal clear um on everything we we've said so there's there's we've discussed already that there's there's three projects at play here so let me just kind of just touch real fast on those three projects don't even go fast you take all the time you need let me touch real one on one for us uh layman's language please okay thank you uh mayor murphy um so the rosemont 138 kv transmission line in switchyard so again this project uh more than 20 years ago rosemont copper at the time now copper world approached tp with a request for service and just to be redundant you cannot refuse a request from any rate user rate pay or whatever it might be correct correct we don't need to agree with what they want to use the electricity for we just we have an obligation to serve right that's kind of the uh uh curse and blessing of being a monopoly right um so we did a study at the time we identified that in order to serve this customer we would need to construct a new 138 kilovolt transmission line um and a substation so we identified a location where we could we could uh tie into our existing system um on an existing transmission line and that was at the toro switchyard site which is about a half a mile southwest of the serita uh highlands neighborhood could you just go just for me um because a switching site gets used a lot i understand probably a substation of course i understand lines the switching station i'm not really up on can you go as basic as describing each you know type of those when you hit on those sure and i appreciate you bringing up that that up mayor murphy so a switch yard on a substation those are two terms that we throw out and we sometimes we use them interchange ably but they are different so a switchyard think of it as a giant breaker panel on your house it just routes electricity from one circuit to another doesn't do anything to it a substation it it changes the voltage into something more usable so it takes it from those high voltage lines so we we typically run 138 kilovolt transmission system and then it steps that voltage down to a 13.8 kilovolt distribution circuit and those are the lines that run through you know generally through the home whether it's underground or overhead to homes and businesses and i might be wrong but when you're talking about a switch yard is that how you can differentiate the electricity the load for a high rate user like a data center or a mine as opposed to residential or smaller users when you know you were describing how it's like a big circuit breaker and then it switches over is that an accurate description or am i off on that mayor murphy you 're not off but you would need to add a metering point there so when you have a metering point then you can tell what electricity you're delivering to someone so just like at your house you've got a meter plugged in that tells us how much electricity you're using we would have basically a giant meter telling us how much how much electricity are we delivering to this large customer customer yep yep thank you excuse me can i say something yes thank you um claire can i get a clarification um when you talked about the rate not going up so can you guarantee rates won't increase as a result of future at list electricity needs from the grid so again that that's one of those questions where i i'm not a politician uh but uh it's so hard to say what's going to happen because of how complex rates are because you've got things coming on the books things going off the books different things happening we really can't fairly answer that question um steven wants to try yeah honorable mayor and council member list so the way again i i had expressed it earlier so large load users that generate a lot of revenue based on their energy consumption puts downward pressure on rates we go in front of the commission arizona corporation commission for new rates about every three years uh that's been the typical schedule so when we go in for new rates they open the books and they review all the cost of service that we have for our customers and so again uh they are a potential customer at this point it's speculative we don't want to speculate at this time but again generally speaking when you look at large users of energy uh they put downward pressure on existing rates because of the revenue that they generate and then bring back for the whole that's correct the entity so so steven um so what you're saying is the arizona commission has to approve like increase of rates every year so you're not so tep is not asking for that to be waived in arizona corporation commission is the one that approves your annual increase i'm assuming and so so i just want to make clear that tep is not asking for that to be waived that they're um they're fine with the commission adjusting their rates or not reviewing the rates annually honorable mayor asking not to be yeah maybe just touch on a rate case that until you go in and ask for a rate case nothing gets adjusted correct honorable mayor council member list that is correct so when we go in front of the commission with new rates uh they review all of our existing tariffs tariffs are the rates in which we set for the different customer classes um and look at the total cost of service uh it takes and to run the grid and so then they parse out what that what the revenue requirement is uh for that given year in which we've uh identified as a test year um and then that is then how rates are uh set for different customer classes and i know i'm jumping ahead but it's gonna make the next agenda item really quick because we're touching on it continuously so just to be clear because it just came to me um you know you don't have a copper world customer right now correct so and you haven't spent any money or they haven't spent any money on that so am i accurate to say the rate case that you're in for now is all backward looking for investments that have already been made and don't have anything to do with copper world honorable mayor so in our rate case before the heirs and a corporation commission those are for uh capital expenses that we've incurred from 2022 to 2024 we utilize a test year in which we collect all essentially think of it as collecting all your receipts for one year and then providing them to the commission and saying this is what it takes to to run the utility for this given year and then that is all presented to the Arizona Corporation Commission to review and decide uh what the proper um rate should be for customers right so it's what he said yeah honorable mayor it's what the mayor said yes you got it right yes thank you you 're welcome i keep forgetting a rate case is always backward looking and we're talking about a project that hasn't you know put up a line put up a poll or you know connected with this particular rate case correct honorable mayor yes it is all backward looking there are costs that we've already incurred right uh and improvements investments that which was one of the slides which we haven 't got to yet that's correct on the right case on all the investments the software lines polls all those things okay keep continuing clerk thank you mayor murphy so back to the whole switch yard substation discussions the one last thing that i just wanted to make the point on is uh a switch yard since it doesn't change the voltage it's part of the transmission system and so when we build a switch yard in conjunction with the transmission line that is subject to the jurisdiction or the approval of the Arizona Corporation Commission when we build a substation it is not oh it's not okay um so that's uh that's that because that's just operational to to bring the voltage down as opposed to a a switching station or why would that be well i i'll speculate into the law a little bit um i would say a substation is for distribution purposes typically you 're you're bringing the voltage down so you can serve customers and the whole line sighting statute that requires the certificate of environmental compatibility that's set up for transmission and generation infrastructure i gotcha okay all right so um i've got on the screen there that condition in that in that cec that was approved um that does require that rosemont copper or their successors which in this case you know copper world is is that would be responsible to pay for the construction um and operation of this transmission line and the switch yard that's okay let's see i think i'm uh i think i'm clicking on mayor lisks box um lisa where does he have to point that to get it you're good okay thank you um so the second project is the santa rita substation so today uh the majority and i i didn't go over this but the majority of of sarita is served off of our lower voltage 46 kv sub transmission system so we've got the heart substation which is located off of old nogalas highway and a few years ago in 2021 we installed a mobile substation just down the street here on la villita road and that's sort of a stop gap measure um because we we'd not been able to get this new substation built so we need additional substation capacity in order to continue to serve the growing needs of the community the residential the commercial um growth that's that's occurring here in the community and so that's why we've got that temporary substation but that's that's that that won't that won't keep us going forever and in fact we identified the need for this substation back in 2016. we were able to go five years before we had to put in that mobile substation now the circuits that are coming out of those those uh substations there they're all nearly maxed out we need to get the santa rita substation built and that needs to happen with or without um the the rosemont project with or without the santa rita connection project right thank you um and in fact we can do that today uh by just tapping into the existing transmission line so no no new transmission lines are needed what we do need is we need a power substation permit from pima county so and that project as i got on the screen there it would be paid for again it's it's for general purpose for the benefit of all and our growth so correct so we would expect that that would be paid for by all rate payers or all customers um so then that brings us to the third project the santa rita connection project which is the most recent project um and this project was identified just last year so as part of our planning studies our system planning studies uh we we look at what's what variables have changed on the system um and based on those different things are needed so when we did these studies last year uh and these studies are mandated by the north american electric reliability um corporation or nerc just to take the jargon out of it so so these reliability studies we ran and it identified that we needed because of things that have changed on the system we needed to build a new transmission line so that we could avoid overload in the event uh of some sort of an outage on the system so and again this is tying into the overall electric grid so this is much bigger than one single customer and so the project that was identified that would mitigate that concern was to build a new transmission line from the sonoran substation uh located on on swan road just south of i-10 and what we were proposing is the santa rita substation clark could i just stop you there because i know wildlife mitigation has come up for utilities in general so is it wrong to make a nexus that you don't want to get to an overload potential because that's well it's not good in general right but it also could be potentially dangerous from a wildfire if something goes or sparks or am i off base on that at all let me mayor murphy let me just so in an overload situation basically what would happen is we're we're monitoring our our transmission lines all the time so if we see an overload it's never going to get to the point where it's going to create a wildfire issue or something like that because we're going to we're going to intervene okay we're going to what would that mean would that mean a brown out rolling brown outs potentially possibly in the most extreme case um typically what that's going to mean so in an overload what what could happen if you just let it go is the wires really heat up and they're going to sag down into an unsafe condition and that 's what you're talking about where right you could potentially cause it cause some sort of a wildfire or or even just put the public in safety and that's why you're working on this because we are getting somewhat to capacity correct correct yeah so when we hit a certain threshold on our lines that identifies hey something's got to go we need to do something so that we we want to make sure we can continue to serve our existing and future customers right in a reliable and safe manner right proactive as opposed to reactive we sure try to be that way okay um and so so yes this project is needed so that we can do that reliably because yeah in the event of an overload situation we would take lines out of service we would do different things to make sure that we we don't have that and and yeah in an extreme case that would mean and depending on the time of year that would mean customers might be out of power for a period of time right not good in july correct no not ideal so as we've already talked this project uh just last month uh went to the arizona power plant and transmission line sighting committee uh we had a hearing for a couple of days where we had sworn testimony um under oath uh and as a result of that we did receive or that group made a recommendation to grant the cec um and now that's pending final approval by the arizona corporation commission what's the cec uh certificate of environmental compatibility ah that's important could you yes can you just touch on like what they look at for whether they're going to approve it or not what do you have to show or approve sure so if you're interested in where this was written in in the arizona statutes it's uh ars 40-360 um but there's certain factors that have to be considered so you you look at um at uh biological factors so what are the impacts on threatened and endangered species things like that you also look at a general wildlife as well um including plant life uh you've got to look at uh you've got to look at the impact on cultural and historic resources you look at the impact on visual resources are there areas that are managed for their scenic integrity um are there just areas i i know i know many members of the public have talked about the views of the santa rita mountains and that's something that we heard loud and clear as we met with members of the public is hey don't put these lines between us and our views of the santa rita mountains so we understood that was something that was important so we looked at the impacts on that you look at impacts on existing and planned land uses so we consider the the general plans of the county and local jurisdictions you look at potential noise and communications interference impacts and this statute is written both for generation as well as transmission lines so transmission lines at least of this voltage don't generally make a lot of noise um you do get into the higher voltages where you get a lot of corona that kind of snap crackle pop but that's more in there for for generation line or generation stations um and i'm forgetting something sure you do need to have a purpose in need to solve why are we doing this we need to demonstrate that it's needed um so that that's included in there oh recreation that's the one i'm forgetting um so we look at all those factors and we make that case hey look we've done this exhaustive study to try to understand where can we put these lines and minimize those impacts and in this case on this project um whether we went with route one the green line or route three the magenta line we 're almost exclusively utilizing existing infrastructure and just co-locating uh so putting those wires on existing poles and so what better way can we minimize uh disturbance to the environment disturbance to land use or the values of the values of the community than putting it on things that are already disturbed the green line is the co-located line the green just the from the bottom of the v left to the magenta line just that piece of yeah yeah let me skip to the this slide here because this shows everywhere where it's green and black checked or orange and green checked is co-located and the magenta line is also co-located that's just again co-located with other tep facilities i was gonna say be clear repeat that if you would because co-location can be yellow i see it as yellow as that dress thing i guess yellow and green is the co-loc ation with hud bay but the green and the black is co-location with the santa cruz project correct yep okay yeah so i would say it's like going out to dinner with your family and you're responsible for the whole cost or going with your buddies and you're splitting the cost okay um and again to be repetitive on purpose um that's why the magenta line was more expensive even though it's shorter because you have other people helping pay for dinner correct other line correct correct so in this case the last thing that we really haven't touched on is the is the santa rita substation and the toro switch yard so those are geographically adjacent to each other so the toro switch yard was was cited in one one spot and land was purchased from the arizona state land department when we needed to build our santa r ita substation we looked for a site we were actually trying to uh purchase a site from state land in that uh to the to the west of there in kind of that triangular area if if you can if you can see that right below the word switch um but that was unavailable from from the state for us to purchase or lease and the land that they offered us was immediately adjacent to the toro switch yard and again they're independent projects we did not want to have our santa rita substation being held up by a project that was tied to the mine that has not been built after after 20 years we need to build that substation and so we were able to lease that land from uh from state land and like i mentioned before a switch yard has a certain purpose and a substation has a certain purpose a substation can also serve the purpose of a switch yard you can still interconnect a line into a substation and not change the voltage so it's an opportunity where instead of building two facilities adjacent to one another we could put those into one place so after we build that substation you can tie the transmission line that would serve the mine into that same substation and that would again just like on the transmission lines that would be an opportunity to co-locate or share that purpose and like we saw in the condition of the approval in 2012 rosemont or copper world would be responsible for those costs and so that would bring the costs of that subst ation that would otherwise be borne solely by teps customers and they would pay for a part of that for their their piece so again lowering the cost to our overall customers and and minimizing the impact on the environment i think that's really all the points i wanted to make okay um well you know last time we you know we made the recommendation for line one even without um probably having all the additional knowledge of the grant and uh saving cost savings if if we did nothing if we stayed with line one or we stayed with line or went to line three how would that affect um you know the the committee from your perspective from the perspective of the rate payers because i'm i'm getting you know caught up on this right you know we have the grant we have the co-location on there what would be the preferred line um and do the pros and cons i mean that's that's fine yeah you know the the green and the black line as opposed to the magenta line because it sounds like they're going to pick one of the lines correct so what we requested and typically we'll request that they approve a single line right in this case we actually requested that they approve both okay and the reason we requested that was because we were unsure if the terms of the grant from the department of energy might preclude us from being able to co-locate with them and so we just wanted to make sure we could move forward with this project regardless of that now but for that we had identified and we had identified with through through public input we had we had several several uh community meetings um with this before we ever made application we had identified the green the checkered line right um as our preferred route right and that was with public input view shed biological animals all the things that you touched on earlier it went into that thought process and recommendation correct it had the lowest environmental impact had the lowest land use impact it had the lowest cost it kind of met all of the criteria for being the better route right did you want to add anything to that steven was that the green one the green one yes the green one one yes the green and black one yeah the one we approved previously honorable mayor what i may add and again we understand that this is new information that we're coming to you with but that grant we were under an embargo from doe to make any sort of announcement with that 70 fill 75 million dollar grant it is fantastic news for our customers in santa cruz county uh but also as it relates to this project and again we are still working out the terms and conditions with doe but it would provide overall cost savings to tep customers as well as unisource customers because of that co-location ability right thank you um does that complete both of your presentation on this one agenda item anything else um other questions um kim so i don't forget you do you want to any other questions for you on this particular item i just want to um be another clarification what you talked about earlier so does it mean that it's possible that the revenue coming in from the mine connection will not be enough to cover the costs thereby causing rates to go up to our um residents no i don't know i didn't hear that clearly yeah can you try a little just a little slower kim oh sorry no it's okay it's just it's a little garbled okay so i just wanted clarification from a statement um a little back ago so it means it's possible that the revenue coming in from the mine connection will not be enough to cover the costs thereby causing rates to go up for our customers no i don't well i don't think that was stated i i think it was well you can try steven if you want but it was the fact of a high paying rate payer high use rate payer could push down the cost of the residential users because um of the higher rate that they're paying on an ongoing basis you do better than honorable mayor you you got it and again uh associated with the conditions that are tied to this project and the rate review this customer will pay for their full service that's required to serve the mine right yeah thank you thanks so at this point it's up to the pleasure of the council on this particular item because right now we have um line one is what we voted on last time but if you don't have any other questions let me bring up the public because we may be going back to the well um so luan giganus i'm sorry if i mispronounced i know some people left okay going going gone philip hoffman good evening good evening forgive me am i allowed to ask questions of tp well yeah ask ask us because what it can't be is a debate um back and forth so let us take the questions and then we'll ask tep to help clarify uh first of all thank you mr mayor members of the council for letting me speak to you again um there's a lot of shared infrastructure in these diagrams uh there's a lot of co-op located resources my question as a homeowner is what are tp 's service level obligations to their industrial customers as opposed to their residential customers if there's an outage if there's a need to reduce to reduce service who gets taken care of first you know do we allow a mine to keep operating while people swelter in their homes in july what are the rules who takes priority here who takes precedence does profit come before health and safety right thank you my second question uh in response to the issue that uh council member morales raised about whether or not residential rates will go up there's some very simple math here uh tep generates or purchases power that kilowatt hour doesn't know where it's going it has a cost but if they sell it to a residential customer at a price and they sell it to an industrial customer at a much lower price they make a certain amount of profit fine but if they purchase more power and if they sell it sell more of it at a lower rate they may make more money but their profit margin goes down that's not a business strategy anybody in their right mind would adopt so in response to the long-term question does an industrial customer make residential rates go up i think they have to one one guy's point of view based on seventh grade mathematics thank you for your attention thank you i appreciate that uh got a lot of paper up here uh john doher ty well thanks everybody for staying it's been a long night um mayor members of the council uh representative council member lisk it's very interesting that on january 26th there was no connection to hud bay rosemont was not discussed it didn't exist tep stood up here and said there is no connection and i'll play it for you just in case you would might not remember just because i know there's some concerns this is really just connected to having future um capacity and growth this is not connected to hud bay in any way is it no it is not okay yeah no it is not speak speak to us john no it is not tep said ted no it is not so let's let's step back for a second first of all save the scenic santa rita's is never brought up at one second the who's going to pay for the rosemont line that's not been an issue that was passed in 2012 we recognize that they're obligated to pay for that that's not an issue what the issue is you look up here on this map here where it shows santa rita substation toro switchyard okay so uh hud bay bought that or augusta years ago they put that switchyard in and then you get the line from 138 going out to the mine approved in 2012. that's a stranded switchyard it's not connected to anything it does tep it does head bay zero good because it's sitting out in the middle of nowhere right it 's not connected it's not plugged in so along comes tep and they doggone know well that they want to hook up to that site at some point so they lease land next door immediately next door to the toro switchyard and why did they lease that land that's where they're going to put the substation and what are they going to bring to the substation 138 kil ovolt line on the santa rita connection no santa rita connection no power to the switchyard no power to the mine site okay so the issue is how much of that 138 kilovolt line coming down going to the to ro switchyard is going to be shoved off on rate pairs which it looks like all of it based on the previous graph they had over there when in fact the primary draw for that 138 kilovolt santa rita connection is the mine there is no question it is the mine that's driving this and now let's put this in context of time frame too now let me speak a little bit i got berated by your councilwoman well but then i have to give everybody else 10 minutes to speak if you go there you know we've been here for two three hours and we just got trashed by councilman priolo for being uh untruthful fake news i don't know whatever else she had to say but we are not being untruthful we are telling you the truth and we would like to have the opportunity to finish that and the situation is very clear it's the 138 kilovolt santa rita connection and if you didn't build the santa rita connection hud bay would have no power but you could continue to operate in this community we've had to cut off the food bank before three minutes we've had to cut people off and and i understand the question the 138 kilo but we can't we get in trouble with all right well um we would appreciate full consideration of this we don't think this is being held fairly at all but every that's why everybody has their time to speak um page humphreys and i think the other one was rape and then the tep john okay i've been scratching my notes as i've been listening to everything that's been happening so i'm going to try to do my best to stay organized here but i might be jumping around a little bit um i think that a big concern that i haven't heard addressed still is it's like what we just heard is that you know i understand that hud bay is responsible for paying for the rosemont transmission line and the rosemont substation and they would have been responsible for the entirety of the toro switch yard but now that that's being co-located with the santa r ita substation are they paying for the substation then because it is now also their facility that they need in order to have power um and i i just it's not clear to me that hud bay would be paying for all of the infrastructure that they need if now the toro switch yard is just being located on the santa rita substation and i just what i also don't understand is that you know these we heard that the rate cases are backwards looking so when when the arizona corporation commission um hears these rate cases about should the rates go up because it's always about them going up um they're backwards looking but these studies that determine the future need and the future load on the grid i i would have to assume are forward looking otherwise they wouldn't be building these new structures so in the study that or set of studies that determined that the santa rita substation was needed you know we've heard that it's needed for like 14 000 homes and that may be true but is it also showing you know did that study consider the fact that there would be a mine built here or not and i i would like some clarification on that um and i think i think that's everything that i had for now thank you appreciate it um the other two are for different items so stephen uh clark if you want to come up and we'll try to um review them i know you were writing i was writing everybody's writing um so i think it goes back to like if there's power back to your you were getting to a max power what's your responsibility do you pick and choose oh i want to i don't want the you know the data center to go down whatever but it's okay to rolling blackout i don't know if you even have that ability to you know pick and choose by you know i'm turning off tom's meter but i'm not turning off clark's meter but please make an attempt at that honorable mayor so yes anytime we get a request from any large user a large user of energy we require them to produce a or conduct a system impact study so it's looking at all the factors that need to be considered in terms of essentially plugging them into our grid so right what's the engineering needed to serve this customer what are the resources that are needed to serve this customer ultimately in the end if we feel as if we don't have the resources to serve that customer we won't serve them but if we do we will serve that customer as to mr briner's point earlier we have an obligation to any customer that requests service but again as it relates to these larger energy users we require that system impacts to study to ensure that we are not impacting other existing customers that we serve today right and it and to be clear um you can't turn off one i mean if you get to that overload capacity do you even have the ability to shut service to you know some customers the case was being made that you're not going to cut off to industrial you're going to cut off to residential if you get to that uh honorable mayor we are very proud of our 99.9 reliability reliability statistic we measure our outages in minutes not ours as other utilities do throughout the nation so reliability is of utmost important uh to us as a utility so we don't pick and choose we have to look at reliability as a whole and that 99.9 statistic is uh top tier in our industry thank you into the kilowatt rate um did you did you follow that you know are you benefiting one because they're gonna they're gonna be making more you'll be making more off of the high rate user at the expense you know so you're gonna buy cheap and then sell it cheap i guess to the industrial user honorable mayor so as part of any rate case proceeding we have to produce a cost of service study and that looks at how we serve every class of customers uh and if you look at those cost of service studies they will point out that those higher load use uh use customers subsidize those uh smaller class customers because of how uh the uh the cost it sir it is required to serve that customer in comparison to other customers so that is part of any record in any rate case proceeding that cost of service study uh and it is part of uh the rate case that's in front of the commission today and other uh past cases as well yep um the next one was that they we know that uh from 2012 you know you could you you'll serve copper world but somehow if you don't build any either one of the 138 in either location lines the only reason you're building that santa rita connection 138 kv line is to serve rosemont i guess we're back to why are we building the 138 line i know you've touched on it but if you could reiterate um if the mine wasn't here and was being built in west virginia would you still be doing one of those two 138 lines yeah mayor murphy thanks for i i apparently wasn't wasn't wasn't crystal clear on that so let me let me clarify there 's an existing transmission line that runs through there today it goes from the northern side of of saorita to uh down into green valley the toro switch yard was intended to tap into that line the toro switch yard does not exist today it was approved in 2012 it has not been built so the santa rita substation would go there as well tying into that same existing line whether we build the santa rita connection project has nothing to do with us building the santa rita substation whether we build the the line to rosemont has nothing to do with the santa rita substation it could be built and tied into a toro switch yard without that santa rita substation we're just talking about the most efficient way to build the projects that make sense so clark america can i just clarify that so i i see i see a a dotted hash line black that's heading west from the proposed triangle substation okay or switch yard yep so that's an existing line today is it a is it an existing 138 line and and so what you're saying is um if if hud bay were to come online tomorrow or say hey we're demanding power tomorrow and they built that that or that orange line they would have something to connect to today and you would serve them through that existing line today that's correct the approvals they needed were were granted in 2012. but it's not it's not a switch yard to nowhere they would be connecting to an existing 138 kv line and have access to power that you would provide as a as a utility today that is correct and again the switch yard does not exist today i understood but if if tomorrow that switch yard was built and all the poles out to hud bay and and lines strung on those poles you would utilize that existing line today to serve them that that's correct not building the santa rita substation not building the santa rita connection project would not stop the mine from being served okay thank you thank you and just to clarify whatever switching station substation is required for the mine one more time that will all be born by the mine by hud bay correct correct and if we ended up doing the santa rita substation um and interconnecting the mine there we know we've got that condition from the cec the certificate of environmental compatibility that says rosemont or copper world would be responsible to pay for that it's a little bit less clear cut um as to how it would be versus the toro switch yard but that could be figured out and they would pay for their piece just like sewer lines we prorate you know based on others coming in america can i further my my question then absolutely so would i mean somebody paid for that existing line the current rate payers paid over the course of their rates to to build that existing line is any of that cost you know shared with hud bay do they you know i mean do they bear any cost tied to the cost of infrastructure for the existing line that previous rate payers have already borne on their shoulders so uh honorable mayor mr dilley so again we have to look at the line that is actually serving the mine so that is the rosemont mine that was approved in 2012 that has been conditioned that uh hud bay or uh rosemont would be paying for that connection uh from our existing facilities we operate an entire grid i i do mr dilley so right there is a vast uh array of transmission lines that serve our local grid so right we can tap into any number of our transmission facilities that uh then uh require substations that then serve any number of customers small businesses residences so right it is all part of this interconnected grid that we operate i think what is unique about this i think what is unique about this whole conversation and about this customer is that they are conditioned to pay for the facilities that are needed to serve from one point to another point which is uh there to serve the mind i hope that that clarifies and if i could take a stab at it i mean every everybody that comes here there's a grid that already exists right whether it's a small business or a large customer the grid is here where we tap into it and then as we all move forward right um and the grid has to be expanded that goes into it but the specific need to serve them is what falls on their shoulders specifically and councilmember lisk has a question oh sorry kim um nope thank you um just a question um steven or clark um so was there a system impact study for the sanarita connection so steven mentioned that we do a system impact study when somebody's trying to interconnect with us so rosemont had this need to bring in this large load we did a system impact study so that we could identify what what what um projects are going to be required to serve them and then they need to agree yeah we'll pay for these and so in this case it was the transmission line for the sanarita connection project that's identified through a different channel that was those reliability studies that we conducted so that was internal identifying that need for it and so it 's actually a mitigation to make sure our system is whole so there is no system impact study to be done there because it's actually the remedy thank you and um if you just touch back back on a little bit of the backward look on the rate case when you put in for one how much potential future need gets factored in to whether you get reimbursed from a rate case honorable mayor so we only look backward looking right with respect to um rate case proceedings so again we look at a test year it is one specific time frame uh within that three-year period uh typically and right that is when we collect all the costs uh capital costs operating costs that it takes to uh run a utility and that is what we then uh propose or or provide to the commission to then set new rates right right thank you and would you have one more question yep go ahead kim sorry i know this is hard um so just back up with the studies was there an environmental study done regarding this yeah so both uh both the rosemont line as well as the sanar ita connection line both of those is part of that application uh i i'm not sure how many pages but there's probably close to a thousand pages um within each of those applications and there's an exhaustive environmental study uh that's included in each of those and and thank you thank you kim and what came out of that again was i guess it's a combination of being a good neighbor to santa cruz right i mean if you're picking the red the green and the black line um there's grant money associated with it there's co-loc ation savings to the rate payers right um on line one where only the residential rate payers would be paying for the magenta line is that correct in part it's correct so all customers would pay for the mag enta line so that would include large customers as well as residential and and if you if the commission landed on the magenta line what would that do to helping serve the santa cruz folks would you have to build both lines then because the grant's attached to the green and black line so what would happen if for whatever reason the magenta line was landed on what would happen to the 75 million what would happen to the shared co-location cost uh all of the above yeah thanks mayor murphy uh sorry uh so the line in the the green and black checked that line exists today so as part of the grant that would be rebuilt it's it's kind of a um i don't know it's a pinch point in the system it was it was underbuilt it's underrated to serve santa cruz county so it's kind of like we're serving them through a straw so it's something that needs to be fixed we've got three phases as part of that project this is the second phase of it so that line will be rebuilt no matter what um it's just whether it's rebuilt and there's a circuit that's tp or there's a circuit that's only uns electric on there and so if it's an opportunity it's a good opportunity to go and maximize that investment and minimize the cost to both both companies right and potentially minimize because if we did the green and black line we don't have to do the magenta line but if we do the magenta line you would still have to do the green and black line correct correct yeah i don't think so can i ask another question regarding that yes kim so for maintenance for future would the magenta line actually be more cost effective for maintenance than the green line or whatever color it is green and black green and black thanks member liska so the magenta line so all maintenance costs would be born on that line so there's an existing line there today one circuit we 'd be putting a second circuit on that line but both of those circuits would be paid for by tp whereas on the green and black line you would have two circuits now but 50 of those costs of maintenance would be paid for by uns electric 50 would be paid for by tp so again it's splitting the bill it's the same cost but two entities are paying for it and so the green and black would actually be lower cost for long-term maintenance and let me just throw out there maintenance on these lines is not a lot they're they 're pretty solid facilities we inspect them that's about about what it takes and once in a while you've got a little bit of maintenance you've got to do so if we go to dinner on the magenta line i'm paying by myself if kim and i go on the green and black line we're splitting the bill exactly okay thank you thank you we'll take a break after that i'm losing all my council members here um um so um so right now you know we're in a flexion well yep well well if we we don't even need a motion if if i'm just wondering if that's where you're at yeah yes okay okay okay okay yeah i'm good okay so we're ready to go to the next item yep okay thank you both for being here i appreciate it thank you thank you thank you um i gotta find out where i am well no can't leave yet we have the rate case sorry um no they everybody wants to keep powering um uh item 10b madam clerk this is the discussion and possible action and presentation of the tucson electric power rate increase uh thank you uh anna would you like to reintroduce our guests though we're on writing terms i think right now yes thank you mayor murphy members of the council stephen eddie with tep is back again thank you and i know we touched a lot on the rate case but um um let's keep powering through backward looking forward looking you know what do we need it for you know how does it uh back to you know to the judge to the thing um uh what's what's that basically is there anything that you haven't yeah and and i know there's a few things that i'd like to highlight so um honorable mayor council members uh mr dilley and anna thank you very much for the introduction and having me here again this evening uh and uh again we touched on a number of these topics throughout the last item but uh i 'll walk through uh where we are uh during uh with our current rate case uh while we filed it uh what's driving the request and what it means for customers in the community also make sure that that i leave time for questions oh so let's start with the big picture um our current rates are based on costs from 2011 and as you can imagine a lot has changed since 2011. most importantly inflation from 2022 through 2024 the period in which this weight rate request uh is set we invested about 1.7 billion dollars into our local energy grid these are real on the ground improvements strengthening infrastructure expanding capacity and making making sure that system keeps up with growth in communities like saurita as i mentioned we're experiencing about 19 percent inflation since 2022 which has increased the cost of equipment materials and labor needed to operate and maintain the system what's important to note though is that while many companies were raising prices during that period tp actually did not uh just a little um side note that often goes unnoticed we reduced bills in 2024 by about 10 and again in 2025 by about four dollars that is driven mostly by lower energy prices which go through uh uh uh rate mechanism called the pfac i don't think a lot of people know that because one i heard from one person obviously utilities never come down in price could you just you know repeat yes absolutely honorable mayor i will just repeat it again we reduced bills in 2024 by 10 dollars and again in 2025 by about four dollars so when you look at our current request which is about 13 13 13 increase based on our latest updates it actually is well below the cumulative inflation we've experienced since 2021 we've also included proposals that aim to keep future adjustments more gradual and predictable rather than seeing larger steep changes between rate cases so when we talk about all these investments it really comes down to reliability and readiness these aren't optional upgrades they're what we uh they're what allow us to keep power flowing during extreme heat and peak demand respond to continued growth in areas like sourita and other parts of our region and strengthen the system against outages and disruptions put simply these investments ensure that when our customers flip the switch the power is there consistently and safely especially on summer days like today and throughout this week and again mayor as i had mentioned earlier we are very proud of that reliability statistic of 9.9 percent reliability one project that i do want to highlight within this uh graph of investments that we've made is the roadrunner reserve battery energy storage system that's in the vale area not too far from here in sourita that project plays a really important role it helps protect customers from fuel cost volatility because you are storing energy and utilizing it during peak periods of usage it also allows us to utilize cleaner low-cost energy energy more efficiently right so when we have solar being produced during the day we can store that energy in the grid through these batteries and then utilize it during peak periods and usually typically people that are environmentally sensitive like to see those things correct absolutely honorable mayor these are real investments that we are making with respect to our clean energy and advancement and battery storage is just one piece of that overall puzzle so let me touch on a few key items that are beyond the investments that we've made in our local grid so let me first touch on our expanded low income assistance program we're proposing a significant expansion of our lifeline program with discounts of up to 50 percent for qualified customers the program would be used in a tiered structure as noted here on the slide so customers with the greatest financial need would be seeing greater benefit today the program provides a flat 20 monthly credit so this would be a meaningful step toward more targeted and impactful bill relief for our customers that need the most second within the rate case we have a mobile home park master meter conversion rider that we are proposing we are viewing this as a pilot program in a way in which we can transition mastered metered modal mobile home parks to individually meters so i i know there are a handful of mobile home parks within sourita we see this more so in the tucson area but when we have mobile home park facilities that are served by a single meter those residents those tenants are not actually our customers so they don't realize any program benefits any savings that they can be provided if they aren't a tep customer those are just going to one customer a mastered metered scenario in in this instance so we are hopeful that this program will really address the concerns that we're hearing in the community around master metered facilities like mobile home parks and then finally we are proposing an annual rate adjustment mechanism this would allow for more timely and gradual recovery of changing costs instead of waiting three years in which we typically do for rate the rate case proceedings uh proceedings uh importantly though uh these are not automatic uh these are not automatic rate increases they would still be subject to public review and scrutiny by uh the arizona corporation commission and still require their approval as well uh if approved the first adjustment wouldn't happen until april 2028 adjustable rates have already been approved uh including for our sister company unisource gas which serves northern arizona and santa cruz county with natural gas uh so let me touch on the current status of the rate case since we've been at this for quite some time so as of today this the case is still under review and nothing is final we recently wrapped up an evidentiary hearing for the rate case in front of an administrative law judge honorable mayor as i had mentioned earlier which took place earlier this spring that process includes sworn testimony again as i had mentioned earlier from tep witnesses along with cross-examination from ari zona commission staff and other parties involved in the case and today we have about 21 interveners in the rate case so those are parties that can essentially review all the material that we are providing to commission staff to review and they have the opportunity to ask any questions that they feel relevant as part of that rate case so what's to expect we are providing briefs to commission staff throughout the summer a judge's recommendation is expected in the third quarter of this year and a final decision from the arizona corporation commission isn't anticipated until november and if approved new rates could take effect in december so in closing uh i'll just say that rate cases we understand that rate cases directly affect customers and we take that responsibility very seriously our goal is to strike the right balance in these proceedings maintaining reliability supporting continued growth keeping service as affordable as possible and providing mean meaningful assistance for those that need it most so with that i'll address any questions that you may have thank you uh we'll go to questions and then um i have one speaker card john um on this one particular item kim yes um is it carpet speaking or steven i'm sorry uh steven okay so steven you mentioned um about the battery energy storage systems is there any plan for something like that to be built closer to us or in our area built where i missed that future oh closer to us yeah honorable mayor uh council member lisk uh so we are actually planning a phase two uh that is actually operational today if i'm not mistaken uh immediately adjacent to this roadrunner reserve uh project and uh council member lisk if i'm hearing you correctly really the proximity of these resources benefit all of our customers so right we can uh put resources in one uh area and ultimately those electrons are going out to our entire grid so it is benefiting all of our customers we also have other battery energy storage projects uh not too far from here as well it was referenced earlier in the last presentation the son oran substation though so that is tied into another large solar array and battery energy storage project uh there at that site so again as i had mentioned battery energy storage is this developing technology that we really want to take advantage of it has great benefits to our customers uh and as that technology develops we hope to include more and produce more on our system thank you because i i i i just wanted to follow up so i realize there's benefits there's also um cons but i i realize there's a high upfront cost so i'd like to know what that would mean in the near future what that would mean to our customers honorable mayor uh council member lisk so yes these are significant investments uh that we are making uh with battery energy storage uh so right that goes along with any investment uh that we make with new generation or other infrastructure upgrades the benefit that we had for this batter batter battery energy storage system were the tax credits that were made available through the federal government so it's roughly about a 30 percent uh production tax credit uh that we were able to uh receive as part of this project which then those savings go directly back to our customers and will that affect in the future as the tax credits um burn off that you'd have to look as system a whole because i know you have a i know all the electric companies have a different year that they want to be off of coal or whatever it might be but the circumstances change over time right and you have to look at the case on where it's beneficial because to kim's point it goes it falls back on the right payers right i mean you could you could be in all potentially all all battery storage solar today we wouldn't want to pay that bill um but that's a possibility right honorable bear uh we have a um all of the above approach within our resource portfolio and in fact we go through what's called a integrated resource uh plan that is reviewed by the commission it is a 15-year outlook in terms of how we are going to serve our customers uh today and into the future so that is sort of the forward-looking plan that we look at um at new generation resources whether it be natural gas whether it be natural gas whether it be battery energy storage wind solar or any other resource right and i know this the rate case is a whole judicial process on all of the above but let's you know we're here trying to get transparent and you know cover all bases so what if the acc came back and said you're we're giving you a one percent you know rate increase what would that do to future investment and or to um reliability or all of the above because i think they have the sworn obligation right the acc to look out for the rate payers but also the reliability right and not wanting to be caught um with brownouts and those types of things because if our residents lost their air conditioning in july that i'll be screaming at us i can promise you why why didn't we push tep or trico to keep up with the utility uh infrastructure needs mayor we are an investor owned utility so um i won't be long-winded with this but because we look back in our rates uh we have to pay for infrastructure today uh and that comes from shareholders so uh if that uh investment market uh is not um conducive to investment it ultimately affects how we can borrow uh how we can borrow uh in the market and ultimately affect uh the rates that uh are charged to customers so uh this is you know again this is a national model uh investor owned utilities and so that rate of return that risk that we are taking and making that investment is important um but also ensuring that we can pay for the upgrades that we've made in a past year right and the acc takes all of that into an account right that's why you have this long lengthy process of your staff and acc staff looking at all of those and um upgrades investments and everything that's gone in mayor murphy it's written in the costs constitution that uh those costs must be just and prudent so right that is what they're evaluating when we go in front of the commission and presenting uh these uh um this information to them for you mentioned you have x amount of intervenors and they take that they have meetings they have public input they have all of the above right we welcome all input thank you yes can i ask another question or who was that if someone else has a question i 'll wait okay diane go first and then i'll go back to you kim okay okay so stephen the slides that you had up oops microphone the slides that you had up there about the proposed rate increase if everything goes through de cember 26 am i correct corrected my understanding that earlier in this evening we were talking about that the rate increase would be due to capital expenses that the rate increase is incurred from 2022 to 2024 and that uh that those capital expenses would be driving the rate increase and it's backward looking up is that still applicable to that slide honorable mayor council member perilio yes that is correct okay thank you it is backward looking it has nothing to do with hud bay it is all backward looking thank you kim um yeah so back to my question um regarding rates um so let me understand is there a plan then to pay customers an increase for those that have solar systems and that they and that you buy back their unused power uh honorable mayor council member lisk uh so um i may need to get back to you with respect to uh that specific question um there are we have a number of uh solar customers that uh have uh benefited from uh installing solar on their homes joe sorry everybody's welcome yep hi everyone my name is joe barrios i'm a manager of corporate communications um honorable mayor uh council member lisk so i i think what you're asking is um essentially how do we compensate uh residential customers with rooftop systems for the solar they produce uh the excess solar they produce basically we have a system in place in which they're um the the energy that they export to the grid for new solar customers their compensation is essentially based on the um the rate that we pay for solar energy from large utility scale systems and that again like all of our rates that's based on a um a system that's determined by the arizona corporation commission gets revis ited every year and we have right now about 55 000 uh customers the grand majority of them are residential who have their own solar systems so um you know if you if you've had a solar array for a long time uh the method which are compensated for it's a little different uh the system we have in place now it's been in place for boy i think seven years or or or thereabouts but it's based on what we pay for solar from other large systems and that's another type program that has to work its way through the acc everything the public hearings the whole nine yards yes and and and that uh was reviewed and approved i don't know like two rate proceedings ago or three i'd have to go back and check but yes reviewed and approved by the acc yeah yeah that answer your question kim yes thank you thanks diane did you oh you're good oh everybody good uh um what just stand by i just have to go back to the call public john did you want to thank you mayor council i i just note that on the previous item 10a the staff was seeking direction from the council does the council wish to comment on the project what is the comment the council would like to make support or not support the project alignment preference if any i didn't hear any discussion upon that maybe i missed it but i did not hear any discussion on whether you were going to take a position on the santa rita connection yeah i made i made the statement and that if if anybody wanted to weigh in based on what we had previously voted on um that was the time and no one did so uh the green line stands as it was from the last meeting okay as far as the rate increase the city of tucson's the state attorney's against the pima county's against it the state attorney general has come out against it and i see no reason to trust this company at all because the false statements that were made early on in this and that presented that there was no connection to rosemont or or hud bay or copper world now just is not true because we spent a good 90 minutes tonight talking about how this project can impact rosemont and copper world and i think it's very important to understand this not just happening right now out of the blue hud bay minerals is preparing a final feasibility study for the mine and that final feasibility study needs to be completed this summer that's what they say they want to do well if they don't have the santa rita connection coming down here bringing that extra 138 kilovolts needed to operate that mine they got a big problem and their board of directors cannot vote or they can vote but they can't vote until that feasibility study is done they got to have that done and this is a big missing piece it's no coincidence that this power line approval for the santa rita connection is occurring now it's just not coming out of the blue this has all been orchestrated over a long period of time to get this duck in the line so that the the board the feasibility study can say yes we have power and then it can go to the board of directors to sanction the mine believe it or not this mine has not been approved by the board of directors they're tearing the living daylights out of the mine but they have not decided whether to build this mine and one other point i'd like to make this town council does have direct oversight on this mine topic the santa santa rita there we're off topic yeah we're all it's on the rate wonderland all right back on the on on the power line i recommend you issue a resolution opposed to the rate increase and take note that tep that you're against the santa rita connection in the resolution against the rate increase put it in there because they needed to put all this information out on the table to begin with and they didn't and was only because of our effort that we had this hearing tonight and they came back in here and provided a lot more detail about what they were going to do so there was some good through this whole effort and we got more information on the table thank you thank you very much um and i when i looked at the the background information that's not actually correct they didn't pass a resolution limiting it to four percent uh both the city and the county um that 's what the state attorney asked for too and that's what the state attorney so it wasn't opposed to it it was to limit um that um you know i'm open to a motion my my difficulty with it is there's a full transparent process um i can't imagine they're going to get the what they're asking for it it typically doesn't happen um it's up to them to prove it um and it's up to the various staffs to work on it and come out i know it also um includes you know maybe phasing it i know water companies have done that through rate cases in the past i certainly would be open you know to a resolution that um would be as sensitive you know to our residents um as possible taking that balanced approach that was um mentioned um earlier but um at the end of the day they have to make the case and acc has to um approve it but i don't know if that's enough of a resolution john for i guess i have a question then because it's already been heard right and and they're they're briefing and so the question is is what does it when did these other entities come in with their positions prior to the hearing already i assume because that's when the analysis is done i mean i 'll defer to to these guys yeah steven so honorable mayor uh the commission takes comments all the way up to the hearing uh which we anticipate in november so they are continuing to receive comments uh related to the rate case so we've been very open about this proceeding it is a very transparent process anybody that wishes to comment on the rate case we welcome it as the city of tucson did and uh pima county but um parties have up until or individuals uh have up until uh the hearing in november to provide comments so it's not even necessary to even come to that conclusion tonight then yeah shane thank you mayor steven oh just for so the city of tucson has weighed in the county has weighed in um they both seem to be supportive of what the attorney general's office has put forward in terms of this four percent should do it uh type argument uh i i briefly looked at the um the attorney general's work and and i'm just curious to know um have you have you responded has tep responded to the attorney general's um proposal that four percent uh should take care of it i mean mayor murphy mr dilley so right that is all part of the briefs that we will be providing uh to the commission as part of our responses and rebuttals so you haven't quite yet done that yeah i i i know from our standpoint right when we look at the investments that we've made uh we feel that that 13 percent covers the cost of making the investments that we've made uh and so we stand ready to defend that uh that 13 percent mayor murphy indicated it earlier uh we come in with a proposal uh it looks far different in the end uh based on the input of various interveners and testimony that's been provided and ultimately the commission uh that votes on it so what we come in with looks very different or may look very different uh in the end thank you thank you thoughts everybody good everybody's good okay i'm getting to those tour two poor gentlemen sitting in the front uh front there oh and then of course we have those in the very back too well that too but if they're going to sit in the back they don't count and only people set up on the front count uh madam clerk item number 10c wait wait can i say something oh i'm sorry yes sorry i didn't realize we were moving on to the next item um not that i want to drag out this meeting any longer i i'm i still think it's important that we send in a resolution at least we can put our point of view out i believe the acc is taking comments up till july 14th unless that's been extended no it's it's november august it's november oh they're not they're not they're taking they're taking comments now up until november yes yes i thought they were taking comments and up until july so i'm i'm wrong yeah no it's till november so depending on how things go you know when we come back from the break we still have that opportunity to have a discussion on it i i didn't realize that thank you very much my pleasure mayor and council yes staff would look to the council bringing that back forward if you wanted yeah us to do something yeah thank you yep thank you uh madam clerk item 10c discussion and possible adoption of ordinance number 20 26- 201 regarding a town code amendment to chapter 3.10 the fee schedule thank you and jody gurian uh will be presenting this item and i have one speaker card after uh park and rec presents we'll comment and and then will that which one's daryl okay um if you did you say you had comment as well um okay um i don't have your i don't have your call to the public uh i should be up there yeah yeah yeah don't worry just before you leave thank you good evening mr mayor thank you for sticking it out with us i'll be fairly brief um i wish i had something clever devon devon's the clever one here so apologies um just as an overview as we start into the discussion about the fee adjustment i want to reflect back on the last time that the fees were adjusted in 2024 those were intended to be kind of a comprehensive adjustment that included ramadas and uh rentals and permits and and also field fees as well uh the council decided not to approve the field fees at that point and sent us back to do some more work we've done that work we've been uh discussing this with the users um obviously with you all and so we feel like we've done the due diligence to bring it back and get your determination on where we should go tonight um so this particular piece of um our our revenue is a really important one because it's one of the big chunks of it and i also want to say in terms of thinking about how we how we do this the discussion and the decisions that you guys make help us form a trajectory we present these things based on what we know about what we what our financial position is and where we should be headed in terms of recapturing those revenues to support the overall operations and infrastructure so just kind of keep that in mind in terms of the why it's certainly a piece of it it's not the totality of our revenue and so one of the things we're looking at is how can we adjust revenue streams across the board to help support our operations this is just a piece of it it's an important piece though all right so in terms of the need for adjustment first of all our fees haven't been adjusted on field since 2013 we did a little little calculation just on the electricity alone and over the last three years that cost for for the field lights has gone up about 10 percent as you all know staffing costs have risen and also supply costs have the the cost that we're talking about in raising for this this particular component is scaled back from what was presented to you the last time last time what was presented was a 10 10 fee going up from five dollars for the fields we came back and retooled that changed it fairly significantly not only cutting that part back and thinking about how we might be able to do this over a the cost of the field that we're going to do this over a different span of time but also looking at the different fields and like how how much maintenance they require based on the type of field multi-use fields are a different type of maintenance than ball fields are and they have a lower cost and so you'll see that reflected in the in the cost proposal the increase that we're proposing is going to raise the cost recovery for the department about one percent that's pretty small that's about thirty thousand dollars a year for this particular increase that's spread across all the users that we currently have that's our estimate um jody do you know the percentage because i know we've heard national averages or national park and rec recommend up to 24 and we were at seven i think on our recovery actually i think we're at five over at five so you're thinking we're going to go from five to six then okay from this component and and that's a departmental cost recovery um one of the things devon and i've been talking about is separating that out and looking at what's our cost recovery in parks what's our cost recovery in recreation what's our cost recovery from business operations um so that we can report on that that and think about that in a more segregated and targeted fashion um because certainly you know parks parks generates a good chunk of our revenue right now i anticipate that other areas will generate a more significant portion over time um but this thirty thousand dollars it's it's not a big amount in the overall scheme of uh you know a large budget but it's it's important that we keep up with those fees um field maintenance costs alone just direct field maintenance costs this isn't the cost of overhead and management and all of that is about a million dollars annually um the amount that we're talking about being generated from uh direct rentals so users like our r so's generates about 15 percent of the total that means that the general fund fund fund fund is subsid izing about 850 000 just for our athletic fields that's not for the totality of the things that we do in parks okay so one of the things that we we talk about a little bit is how do we support our total park system for the general user the casual person who walks along the trail they're not expecting it to be separate use for them only for a specific purpose they're just walking by taking advantage for the people who are using it for a specific use like they come for a program they rent a ramada they use a ball field and they're they're paying that fee as an enhanced user and that's a very typical model across the country we have general investments that we make for a park system across the board and then we have specific things that cost a little bit more to help set offset the cost because the investment is more significant um on the part of the town as i already mentioned your determination helps us determine kind of where we're going in terms of cost recovery we all know we're going to have that conversation in a little more depth soon but these are the things that we use to glean how do we do this where do we go what do you expect from us in terms of fees so this is a smallish um step i know it has an impact certainly we don't want to demean that um but we've reduced that part in half we're contemplating what's our next strategy because we don't want it to all be borne by our local users we're thinking about ways that we might be able to do local user groups versus outside user groups um there's more to come is what i'm trying to tell you and i'm not going to outline in specifics what we are thinking will present because there's more discussions to have and and jody just to reiterate what was proposed a couple of years ago and what's being proposed tonight is half as much as what was proposed a couple years ago even though costs have continued to go up correct correct correct um brief history of what we've done on in terms of the work that you sent us out to do um as as i mentioned the fees for the fields were not adjusted in 2024 they generate about 40 percent of our revenue uh in the department currently and the last time they were updated it was in 2013 which that's 13 years ago for doing math i should have asked for a rate case i'm just saying i'm just saying um we've held we held two initial meetings with our rate or with our rso's i've been listening to all the rate stuff uh with our rso's to gather feedback to talk about other options to talk about ideas um that actually is when we came to the conclusion that maybe we should talk about uh stair-ste pping it and so that's when we reduced it we also talked about delaying the implementation date we talked about other improvements to the um the way that they manage the the lighting and the way that we build them to try and improve the the experience that they're having we recognize that there's some things that we can do um as we're doing the cost increases uh one of the things we're really working on is trying to remediate the fields uh to improve improve their conditions it takes a little bit of time to take them offline and let the grass rejuvenate itself and allow us the time that we need for those bigger and more in-depth projects and so that's some of what we're doing um we're getting ready to do i think dylan told me this morning quail creek uh one and then all of uh wrightson this next month all right so this just outlines the timeline this is really in here just to kind of give you an idea that we've been doing this uh for more than a year now by the time it gets implemented and updated for the user groups we started back in november with a meeting we had discussions we did some more research we came back in january with another proposal and discussed it our final proposal you'll recall seeing in april we followed your meeting up with a meeting with them to let them know what our final proposal had been that's what you all see tonight and then we've been in this period of time that is required by law where we post it we allow for comment we allow for this opportunity and we see what we do so dependent upon what our decision is tonight fees would be available although we're not planning to implement them until january they would be available in july but we decided to delay implementation at the request of the users um oh we tried to adjust it so it didn't have that split sorry about that this is just an overview of what we're proposing so multi-use fields are all of the fields right now are currently at five dollars an hour they would be going up for multi-use fields to or excuse me multi-use fields would be staying at five dollars the baseball and softball fields because of that higher level of maintenance are going up to 750 if it's approved this is the typical number of hours that we see them rented for and the total amount on the right that we would see as an increase lights uh would be moving from 10 to 13 that would be affecting multi-use fields as well so they are going to see an experience an experience an increase in that area the ball fields would experience both of those increases total is just under 30 000 i think my my uh calculations here are a little bit low because they were they were based on a year prior and so i think they're they're coming in a little higher so we'll see a larger number of rental hours and so and then um when we part of isn't one of part of the changes is giving the rso's more access to the lights which could potentially compensate for some of it because now we're burning electricity right sure isn't being used honorable mayor it's a good point um currently we we schedule it based on the schedule that they give us and so if nobody's out there the lights are burning and they are being being billed for them um presumably if the situation were that we had scheduled the fields and they had to cancel nobody would be there to turn the lights on so they wouldn't be billed for those hours um we do have a situ a system in place so that they can cancel that that schedule but sometimes it doesn't happen we occasionally get reports that lights are lights are on um and there's nobody on the field so we know that there are times when it doesn't get canceled so there should be any savings thank you any questions before i yes diane um there was a microphone one of the residents spoke during call to the public and expressed concern she was a mom and she was against the increase in parking rec fees and she described having her kids in multiple sports and that it was a big impact on the budget was the was the reduction of the fee that you just presented here was that taking something like that into consideration hearing hearing that angst of that mother you went you you reduced it from ten dollar right you could have done from five to ten but you went at 750 and one went from five to five what more five to five so was that trying to be cognizant of that that position that parents find themselves in when they have kids in lots of sports and have to pay all these fees sure honorable honorable mayor um counselor pri olo so yes it is uh not directly because we don't typically uh talk just to the parents you know we're talking usually to the folks who are in charge of the groups and the leagues but they've expressed that same thing to us um we know that there's a cost that gets passed on to the families absolutely um you know when we run programs you know we have the latitude to adjust the fees based on need um certainly you know i i'm not in a position really to comment on what the cost of their program is i know it's an impact i know that we we charge and then it gets passed along but we are certainly trying to be mindful of how the impact gets gets rolled out to all of the teams mr mayor yes i just have a quick thing so i've tried to keep math now i'm afraid i have this is on youtube because if i mess up my math everybody will know but if uh i took the baseball field increase right the 250 increase for baseball fields correct and if a team practice once a week which i know they probably do more but let's just make it simple for 52 weeks that would be 130 more than they would pay a year a team divided that by 12 players then each player is paying ten dollars and eighty two cents per year that's what we're talking about for an increase so i just wanted to point that out i also want to point out that in 2020 in 2013 the minimum wage was seven dollars and eighty cents now it's 15.50 so that's what we're paying our parts um field guys it's doubled almost in cost and yet we haven't raised our fees at all so i just wanted to give some perspective yep and you know and if i can piggyback off of that um and i know the condition and wanting to keep up with that i mean obviously i would like to see that improved but back to your point vice mayor these increases almost to me only will keep us treading water it won't even impact potential improvements that we could do i like to hear that you know we might look at in the future non-resident or maybe for profit groups um for lack of a better term traveling teams um you know differently but maybe if they're all residents you know you know that's why we're gonna have more conversation on it um but you know when you talk about how much is anytime we you know whether it's going to solid waste because of road conditions every time we tap the general fund that's something else that we can't be doing um in another area or including the same area potentially um so certainly i'm very sensitive to it um i like that we paused i like that we went back i like that we you know went half the increase um but it has to come from somewhere right if we're going to provide the quality that i think we all want to do provide you know there has to be at least you know some adjustments over time i wish to i wished everything was free uh that would really be sweet at the end of the day but we just spent i don't know four hours or so on costs and rate cases and all kinds of other things right and unfortunately none of this stuff is free but you want reliability and balance with you know sensitivity at the same time so i just wanted to put a couple of those thoughts on piggybacking yes diane i'd like to express my gratitude to the staff to how sensitive i believe you have been over this past year i really appreciate it i think you've done a great job thank you thank you thank you um any other questions and before i um daryl go first and then the other gentleman i'm sorry i forgot i don't remember your name steven thank you all right thank you for giving me this opportunity good evening mayor murphy and members of the town council my name is daryl finn frock i'm a proud street resident since 2011. i've been a volunteer volunteer coach for copper hills little league since 2018 and have been a member on the copper hills little league board since last year where i'm one of the baseball coordinators and fields and safety coordin ators last thursday i submitted a letter to the the mayor town council and parks and rec director outlining many of the concerns i'm going to share tonight my purpose of this is not to criticize the town or its staff but to bring attention to the issues that directly impact hundreds of serita families and the quality of the recreational opportunities available to our youth first i would like to thank the town for the investments being made currently in the field remediation throughout the community we recognize that these projects are important they're costly and we do appreciate the town's commitment to improving the facilities as they are now however remediation is not enough once completed these fields must be maintained to a standard that reflects their purpose baseball and softball fields require specialized maintenance and should be treated as dedicated baseball and softball facilities not simply as a multi-use athletic field this past spring copper hills little league was blessed to serve more than 600 baseball and softball players in the community throughout the season our board repeatedly reported concerns including non-functioning scoreboard on field three at animax holes throughout playing surfaces and collapsed drainage culvert that's created a visible sinkhole at animax these issues were reported multiple times because they were safety concerns for our athletes the families and the community Meanwhile, League volunteers continue to step up. We repaired home plates, rebuilt pitchers' mounds, repaired infields, purchased field materials, and maintained common areas. Personally, myself and my son have spent hours at the fields cleaning dugouts, the common areas, because we deeply care about providing a quality experience for our players. Over the last three years, Copper Hills Little League has invested more than $100,000 into the Anamax Park Complex. Yes, $100,000. This is all through the replacement of score boards, snack shack improvements, field upgrades, maintenance of the maintenance materials, and other facility enhancements. That investment has come from local families, sponsors, fundraising efforts, and volunteers who simply want the best experience possible for Sarita's youth. We're not asking for special treatment. We're just asking for partnership. As the field use fees continue to increase, we believe there should also be a corresponding level of support. The responsiveness and professional maintenance provided to those organizations serving our youth. We respectfully ask town council to evaluate the support being provided to the RSOs in the community and ensure that the safety concerns are addressed in a timely manner and work with leagues like ours to maintain the facilities that our children can be proud of. Thank you for the time. Thank you. Thanks for sticking around, by the way, too. I know. I know it might have been painful, but hopefully you learned something about all these other areas. I appreciate it. Good evening, Mayor, Council and staff. My name is Stephen McPherson and I currently serve as the interim president of Copper Hills Little League, which is a registered 501 nonprofit organization serving more than 600 families in our community. We are here to respectfully object to the proposed increase in field usage fees. Copper Hills Little League relies on Animax baseball field, Onza Trail, Wrightston Ridge fields, and North Park baseball fields to run our program. These facilities are essential to youth baseball in our area, and they allow hundreds of kids to participate in one of the few remaining affordable youth sports organizations, as the mother earlier articulated. The proposed fee increase would have a direct and significant impact on many families. Little League is intentionally designed to be accessible. Raising fees, especially at the level being discussed, will price many families out of participation. That means fewer kids on fields, fewer opportunities for growth, and fewer positive community experiences. In addition, we do not feel that we are currently receiving the value for the fees we already pay. As my colleague mentioned, poor field conditions, unadd ressed safety hazards, slow or incomplete responses to maintenance requests. As paying customers of parks and recreation, we believe it is unreasonable to increase rates when the current service level does not meet basic expectations. Copper Hills Little League wants to remain a strong partner with the city. We want safe fields, reliable maintenance, and a positive environment for the kids who represent the future of this community. For those reasons, we respectfully ask the council to decline any rate increase at this time. Thank you, Mayor, Council, and staff for your time and consideration. Thank you. Well, and there's, I guess, part of the quandary because we want improvements, but, you know, we have to pay for those upgrades. That's the, that's the difficulty. I don't think we can expect one without the other personally. Just my own personal opinion. Jody or Devin, did you want to respond? Mayor Murphy, members of the council, thank you. I don't think we met in person. Had some email exchanges. This is a tough thing. I mean, it's, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. If we could do it all for free, we would, but that's not the situation we're in. And we're trying to be sensitive to the needs of the organizations while still balancing the need of our organization to provide an asset, a community asset. I can fully admit that, you know, for probably a long time, we weren't taking the best care of those, those spaces. And we've done what we can, especially after our last visit on this in 24. To take a second look to invest resources. Off the top of my head, I can tell you, we've staffed, brought on an additional staff to be dedicated to those fields. I know for field maintenance, there's a daily routine. We're trying to stay on top of it. But I'll fully admit as well, we lean on our organizations to help us, you know, routinely upkeep when we can't be there in the off hours between games. It's a tough thing, what's in front of you tonight. But there's been significant impactful increases to the cost of doing this business. That is why we're considering this in the first place. And if we do approve this, can we count on, expect, you know, this improvement process to continue and the dialogue still to continue? Because again, we can't do one without the other. I want to fix everything. And then for my colleagues, when we have this future conversation, it's not lost on me. You know, we're very proud of our signature events, right? But our signature events are held on these fields. And it's really tough. I remember when we had Fiesta, right, we had the water slides. And, you know, the water gets dumped, you know, on there. And then they're playing on them. So I think there'll be a future conversation, whether it's Man in the Maze or Parcel 30, as we continue to grow and the organizations continue to grow and the kids continue, you know, to grow. And then, you know, to come, it's going to be very difficult to hold these, which we're proud of, these massive signature events. I was also reflecting we were supposed to have the carnival rides, right? And then we ended up, you know, they couldn't do it. But when you've watched those people set up, right, they bring in heavy trucks onto these fields. We got to stake them in, right? It's not probably the use that they would want to see at the higher level quality. So hopefully we can have, you know, a dialogue in the future that fields may be, hopefully over a period of time, can only be used for fields. And to their point, you know, a baseball field has a little bit more of additional maintenance, right? So we are pushing that a little bit. The multi-use fields that we don't, we're not. But probably the end result will be dedicating, hopefully someday, the fields for what they were designed for. And then we have to struggle with, do we move all the signature events around here where we can't put 12,000 people in? Yeah. But, you know, when the fall comes, I know we're going to have additional discussions, you know, again, with men in the maze or, you know, where the rec center was carved out. Yeah. Or a parcel 30, that might be where we need to go at some point if we provide, can provide the quality and not touch them. Because, you know, watching like SHS, you know, baseball, they're not touched for anything other than that. And like our user groups, those kids are, there's an expectation. They're out there raking and seeding and mowing and all kinds of other things. Yeah. But you can't look like salary at a high school field without not touching them and holding major events on it. But. Yeah, Mayor Murphy, you bring up some great points. The first one that you brought up was, are we going to continue to try to improve the answers? Yes. You know, there's a silver lining to these fees not being forwarded from 20 or not getting through in 2024. I'm going to use Mr. Dilley's comment, sharpening our pencils. The silver lining to us was we got curious. We tried to find other ways. We found some savings in an overseeding schedule to bring on an additional staff member. We also in that period of time saw a strengthening of relationships with our user groups. Starting to get curious about what their impacts are and what they're looking for from improvements. You saw in the presentation tonight several recommendations that we've been considering. And those are direct result of these conversations with the user groups. So I think that there's always room for improvement. We want to continue to strengthen those partnerships because, you know, our belief in parks and rec is we can't do it without our users. So we need them rallying around us. So that's the answer. Yes, we're going to continue to try to improve. I will caveat that with increasing fees doesn't always mean we are improving the product. Right. You made mention of treading water. That's precisely the feeling we have in parks and rec right now. How do we wring the towel, if you will, for efficiency is what we're looking at. I mean, we've had some wins. But to your point, one of those in the future may be looking at competing uses. Are we really protecting those assets when they're being competed with our signature events? Right. That's a discussion for a future item that we'll visit. Yeah. Debbie. Debbie. Debbie. Debbie. So this is -- okay, I've been in your guys' shoes. I know what it's like to be raking fields and doing lines. I don't like the fact, and I know that you guys are paying $100,000 for these fields. You know, that's $100,000 that's not coming out of the town 's pocket. It's coming out of their pocket. That's like a teacher that is buying extra supplies for their students that make -- you know, they're only making $30,000, $40,000 a year. You know, we got rid of -- we got rid of Spooktacular. Can we allocate some of that money to compensate their $30, 000 in the user fees that we're asking for? Difficult question and answer is we've allocated those to support other events, those funds from Spooktacular. We fully understand that there's, you know, dollars being expended to support our facilities from the user groups. The challenge I have is we're also doing the same at a great rate. You know, the number we've kind of conservatively estimated is that $850,000 a year is what we are subsidizing, if you will, to support these spaces. We want to do more, absolutely. We want to improve the facilities. We want to offer more spaces. But the challenge is where -- what is the math? It's an equation, a math equation. Where do we get the funds? Where do they come from to do that? We're just in a bit of a pickle. Mr. Mayor? Yes. I'm saying this because I'm going to be off to council in six months. But we don't have property taxes. Like Tucson has the fields are free. Their grass looks great. But they have property taxes. We don't have sales tax. So everything is being -- like we don't have all of those pots of money to be able to bring up what -- like the quality that I think we want. Just isn't going to happen with just user fees. Like it's impossible to do that. And we can't keep subsidizing at the rate of like -- what did you say? Five, four percent? We're subsidizing 94% of this program. Is that what I got? Yeah. Okay. That's astronomical coming back from parks and recreation departments that I've worked in past. So I think this council and I think the public needs to start thinking about it. If we want this increased level of quality, something has to give. Either you have to increase fees or you're going to do a half-cent sales tax that goes towards recreation and a pool and those type of things. Because we want it, but we can't just make it happen. It doesn't -- just we have to figure out a place to get the money from. And I don't want it on the backs of the users all the time. It shouldn't be on their -- they shouldn't be doing that. That's a lot of money. So to me that's why we have to start looking at those other avenues if this community wants to increase the quality. Because we can't keep adding to it. That's just my opinion. I don't know if the format of this fits. I don't know. I probably can't just because -- You can't do this afterwards. Yeah. Just because I didn't allow the last group after we closed the call to the public. Yeah. The last group didn't say that until 10:00. Well -- The last group was a little bit. The last group was a little bit. The last group was a little bit. The last group was a little bit. 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Discussion and possible adoption of resolution number 2026- 0879, Redevelopment Improvement Incentive Agreement with Road house Green Valley LLC. Roadhouse. Victor Gonzalez giving us some good news. We love you, Roadhouse. It's fun to get caught up now. Yeah. And actually, Victor, can -- I'm not even going to recess it, but can you just give me two minutes? Yes. While he's walking up, or I'm floating, so I won't be able to get through. I'm not even recessing. He's running. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. We have a Cora. Okay. Am I taking over? Okay. I think it's already been announced, and Lisa, you already introduced it. I was going to pay attention. Council, thank you for the opportunity here. We also have Josh with Rodehouse, who has waited here patiently. Thank you. Certainly, he can share some updates to the project here in just a moment. But before you, you have for consideration approval of a redevelopment improvement incentive agreement with Rodehouse. And this agreement, right, implements what is the economic development incentive program that was previously approved by town council. So this agreement outlines the terms of the incentives. So what is that incentive? It's threefold. It's the business attraction program, the facade grant program, and the building permit fee credit. So this incentive in the -- the value of incentive under this agreement does not exceed $142,138. And so, yeah, that's what you have before you. I do want to take a moment just to share with you the economic impact analysis. So part of our due diligence with the incentive agreement is to understand what is our ROI, our return on investment. I think with any incentive that the council considers, we should always look through the ROI lens. And so we work with Applied Economics and they develop what is the economic impact analysis for Rodehouse Cinema. And so they establish based on the data and the sales figures that Rodehouse provided to us that Rodehouse Cinema's would generate approximately 1.1 million in gross sales tax revenue to the town and the cost of the city. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. And so we're going to look at the economic impact. 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The projected payback period for the town will be approximately 1.2 years. So in other words, the incentive valued at 142,000 will receive that in return to the town within the first year- ish or so. And lots of smiley faces on top of all of that too, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. I can certainly go into the specifics of the agreement if you like. I think we're -- Line by line. But I'll give -- That's right. I'll give Josh the opportunity to provide us a quick project update. And then happy to take any answers. So Josh, if you may please. I'd much rather hear from Josh than from you. So -- Thank you for sticking around. I appreciate it very much. My pleasure. My pleasure. And I want to acknowledge Victor for all of this. hard work on this. And we really wouldn't have come down here if it wasn't for these incentives. So we appreciate you guys, you know, putting your best foot forward and attracting us to come down here. And really not a big update since last time I talked to you guys. But we're still looking for Thanksgiving, Christmas, having movies down here. And it's going to be a lot of fun. We can't wait. So -- Promise you're going to invite us to the ribbon cutting. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. On there. Well, thank you for being here. Anyway, I wanted to thank you guys. Absolutely. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion at this time. Mr. Mayor. Yes. I want to make sure I have the right one. Yes. I move to adopt resolution number 2026-0879. And I second. I second. I second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, signify by aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. And you're free to stay around the rest of the night. Josh, safe travels back. Yes. Thank you very much, Josh. Appreciate it. Madam Clerk, item 10E. Discussion and possible action regarding amendment number one to contract with the Duro Group Incorporated. Hmm. Um. It's on the agenda. Oh, it's on the agenda. Yeah. Okay. Um. Uh. Devin? Are you making a return visit? Or did he forget this was on it? Oh, Jody. Or Devin? Devin, calling Devin. Mm-hmm. Devin, calling Devin. All right. After the session. We're on 10E. You're the next contestant. Well, I hope you're not tired of me tonight. No. I don't have any jokes this go around though. There's not a crowd to laugh at me. Mm-hmm. So, uh, mayor and council, thank you for having me back. Um. So, ahead of you tonight is a contract amendment proposal for, um, the services to support us through our lake design rebuild, the endeavor of the lake remediation. Um, so I wanted to cover tonight just the scope of services at a high level and what we're anticipating for this next fiscal year, um, in, um, our scope of agreement with our Dura. I will share just out of the gate. Um, these funds have been budgeted. It's just activating those funds for use in this next fiscal year. So, this is not requesting new budget. We're not gonna, you know, drive AC crazy with a change. We're just looking to activate the funds that have been budgeted. So, the scope of services, um, I'll also share. We are now working with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Oh. It creates complication. Oh. And so, yeah. So. We know those people in D.C. So, I was excited. It does. Our Dura is really good at keeping everything clean for us. And so, this, this scope of services has been built, um, in a fashion to be nimble in response to the Corps of Engineers. Um, we're just about to submit our scope agreement for our, our partnership. And that is going to take what we've been told six to nine months to get through. At the end of that period, there'll be an agreement that comes in front of you, um, partnering with the Corps of Engineers so that we can get access, um, start to see reimbursements for the funds that we're going to be, um, paying ahead of, uh, those reimbursements. So, we'll have to pay those forward and then we'll be able to reimburse the cost. But we're looking at six to nine months just to see the agreement come to place. So, in that six to nine months, we're going to do some homework. We've got some work we need to do. Um, this program is going to be multi-year in an approach. So, this is one year. But I'll tell you now, it's likely we're going to be back here in a year. We want to be very public facing in this project. Uh, but we'll likely be here again in a year to talk about the next year's contract. So, it's multi-year. Um, and it's really targeting some specific outputs for this, this next year work. Um, lake infrastructure. Depending on how that agreement comes through with 595, we may see ourselves do some of the preliminary work. Um, and we're going to be able to do some of the projects that we're going to do some of the projects. Um, and we're going to be able to do some of the projects. Um, and we're going to be able to do some of the projects. Um, and we're going to be able to do some of the projects. Um, and we're going to be able to do some of the projects. Um, and we're going to be able to do some of the projects. significant disruption to kind of get ahead of the project. That's likely gonna land in the aeration and pumps, but it could also extend into the lake liner, depending on the timing. But we wanna be sure that we have the funds available to have our Durham manage that project if we see ourselves get into any amount of construction at the tail end of this fiscal year. In addition to that, we have four distinct submittals that they're gonna be supporting us with. So there's kind of, you may remember, the four tasks associated with this project. Task one is the lake liner, so actually replacing the liner . Task two is the pumps and aeration, everything to keep the water healthy. Task three is looking at the surrounding park, and task four is the parking lots. And then lastly, we know that if we can be nimble in our funding strategy, we may see some, you know, kind of the topic of the conversation earlier, alleviation of pressure from the general fund, maybe SIF. We wanna see if there's funds available to us, and so they're gonna be supporting us with some augmented staff time on the grant writing side to see if there's contracts or grants that we qualify for that we may want to pursue to try to help us through this project. So that's the funding strategy. Oh man, is there, I hate to say this, but I think council member Lisk might be a little bit in the way. Thank you. Okay, so we tried to break this down in a consumable fashion. Task one is the project administration. This is really all the legwork to get us through the 595 public meetings. We actually have now incepted a project team within the town. It's like, I think, 12 people right now, and they're helping us through so that we have our experts involved. This is gonna be, it's kind of the grunt work to keeping us on task. Task two is the design reviews. They're going to be submitting on our behalf all of the designs to all the appropriate places, community development, others, so that we can ensure that our plans are ready to go and shovel ready when funding is available. Task three, and I'm gonna make a distinction here, grants and funding. So this item, task three, is specifically money already approved for them to start identifying grants, meeting with us. And we've actually already had one meeting with a grant provider to see if we would qualify. So this is money that is already programmed for them to help us identify. When we go to task allowances, and I'll go a little bit ahead, but grant writing, the 70K, is for us as a town, as an organization to say, yes, that grant fits our project. We want to move on it. When we approve it, they will start to use that dollar to get through the grant writing and the meetings and the submissions and all of it. The other task allowances, the geotech, the environment and public are all right now built because 595 is going to require us to do some extra work. So it's kind of the cost of doing business. Geotech work on the lake, environmental reviews of the lake and some public outreach for this project. And then lastly, they have some travel expenses. So that's that 9.8K. The last item is owner contingency. We wanted to put this in because just as we were starting to instep this scope, we had an electrical review of the lake and realized that it's going to need more electrical improvements to support the aeration. Thankfully, it was already contingency, a contingency in another contract with the designer. But we realized we probably want to bake in some of that into this contract. So if there's unexpected things, unforeseen things that come up in this project, we have the funds available. The real important piece is that that is owner contingency. So we will have the ultimate say in authorizing that work if something comes up. So this contract with basic contingencies is 669,190. The contract in front of you is not to exceed 680,000. So just what we do to make sure that there's plenty of capacity. And then lastly, this is not just money out the gate. This is a time and materials basis. So they will only bill us for the work they actually do. So these are kind of the high points in a perfect world will likely see ourselves come below. So our staff recommendation is to approve the amendment and contract so that we can continue this work in this next fiscal year. And with that, I'd be happy to take any questions from the council. Any questions for anybody? No. Mr. Mayor. Yes. I move to approve amendment number one to contract number 260035. And I second. I second. We have a motion and two seconds. Any further discussion? All those in favor signify by aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. Motion carries unanimously. That was an aye. Thank you. Thank you. Madam Clerk, item 10. 10F. F. Possible appointments to the Board of Adjustment, Parks and Recreation Commission, and Planning and Zoning Commission. Thank you. And we have multiple people willing to serve. I even see one that stuck it out with us for us. So I appreciate that. And we'll go in order of the various council members. So. Can we vote all at the end? Can we vote individually? We can do it all at the end? Oh, we can. Yes. Okay. Speak up if you don't want to. You prefer that? I'm going to read them. Yeah, I'll go ahead and. Would that be first? Yeah, go ahead and read. Motion made to appoint Alexis Savoy. Is that how you say it? Savoy. Savoy. To the Board of Adjustments to fill a term ending June 30th , 2030. Do it. Okay. And to appoint Jeffrey Allen to the Parks and Recreation Commission to fill a term ending June 30th, 2030 and to appoint Mark Ferguson to the Planning and Z oning Commission to fill a term ending June 30th, 2030. Thank you. Councilmember Lisk. Yes. I motion. A motion is made for appointing Bryce Elliott to the Board of Adjustments to fill a term ending June 30th, 2030 and to appoint Moses Bell Hall to the Parks and Recreation Commission. The Parks and Recreation Commission in term ending June 30 th, 2030. I just want to let you know I did talk to both of these gentlemen so it was really nice to talk to them and they both really want to serve. Great. Now we appreciate all of our members who are willing to step up. Councilmember Priolo. I move to appoint Aaron Thomas to the Park and Recreation Commission to fill a term ending June 30th, 2030. And Mr. Mayor, my name is part of Debbie Morales. I don't need to name him. He's a busy. He's a busy. Good. It's the same thing. Oh. And then Councilmember Lytle isn't here so on behalf of him I motion to appoint Lori Brown to the Planning and Zoning Commission to fill a term ending June 30th, 2030. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Jeffrey Allen is appointed to the Board of Adjustment and the Parks and Recreation Commission. So I've got to put him on there too. Okay. Yes. My apologies. Motion is made to appoint Jeffrey Allen to the Board of Adjustments to fill a term ending on June 30th, 2030. Thank you. Now we have multiple motions, Mr. Palladini. Okay. Where is our second? Can any of us make a second then? Just one second is fine. Okay. Do I have a second? I second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Oh, sorry. Are we good? I'm good. Okay. All in favor signify by aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. For who are here, thank you for your willingness to serve. And for staying. And for staying. That shows the tenacity that you'll have. And I know you'll continue that tenacity in serving on our commissions and boards. So I appreciate it. And it was good to meet you, Lori. I've talked to you many times. I hadn't had the pleasure to meet you in person. So thank you. Item 10, oh excuse me, 11A. Back to radio. Study session regarding the funerary of Nelson Sawyer located at Quail Creek. Thank you. And Anna, we'll begin this conversation and then we have a couple of presenters. And please proceed. You are my superstars because this is about very. Oh wait, I'm sorry. Anna has to go first. I'm sorry. Anna. Where's Anna? I'm sorry. Thank you Mayor Murphy, members of the council. This is an item that was requested by the historical society, the Santa Cruz Historical Society, to be brought before you for your education on a funerary site that is located in what is now the Quail Creek development. So there was a gentleman named Nelson Sawyer who was buried on this site in 1912. And over the course of the last hundred plus years, ownership has changed, development has occurred. So this was brought to our attention because the Quail Creek development is expanding to the south. This is an area that is zoned. There have been a couple of new plats. Unit 38 and 39 were recently approved. And it's getting close to the grave site. So there's been some site work going on around the grave site that has drawn the attention of the historical society . Shane, is there anything I need to add to that before our presenters go ahead and present? Thank you. Now, go ahead. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. Before I say anything else, thank you, you're all angels. I'm serious about being here all night too and taking us and listening to us. I'm Mary Mack Trenosky, president of the Santa Cruz Valley Historical Society. This is Monica Christiansen, my vice president. This was brought to our attention actually by Dan Shira when he told us about the notice that was in the paper. And we really appreciated getting that communication. It is on Quail Creek's property and it is on Campbell Avenue and it is being developed. And our concern is, I don't know, we actually had a little clarification. The Chronicle Heritage Company partners with land developers to handle cultural resource management and regulatory compliance. So it wasn't the Arizona historical or the Arizona museum that was triggered by the statutes. It was actually this cultural, the land developer contacted the Chronicle Heritage Company. Okay. So they are partnered together and we're with Saudita, as you can see from my shirt. So we have an investment in our community and what's done in our community. So we have an investment in our community. So we have an investment in our community. So we have an investment in our community. So we have an investment in our community. 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*Loud noise* My laptop says 359. *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* *Loud noise* Now my laptop says 4 o'clock. Oh, except Anna doesn't say 4 o'clock. *Loud noise* She's the director. No, don't. Mine's not cooperating. I think we're legally unclear. See it at the hour of 4 o'clock. I'm called to order the Thomas Lerita Board of Adjustment Meeting for June 9th. First order of business would be to pledge allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Scott, would you please call and make a roll call. Jeffrey Allen. Present. Bryce Elliott. Absolutely. Jim Gay. Present. Stuart List. Great. Daniel Millett. Present. Alexis Savoy. Present. Mel Selway. Here. I'm about to say Mr. Chair, but we don't actually have a chair. Mr. Acting Chair, you have a report. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is the public area regarding the variance requests for not even signed standards. Staff, do you have a report on this, please? Larry Myers is the case planner on this. Larry Myers is the case planner on this, and he will present a very thorough discussion of the issues. All right. So up today is a public hearing for case SA10-26-0001, which is a variance request for monument signed standards contained in table 18.79-8 of our town code. So first we'll go over what a variance is. So a variance is a request for relief from specific zoning standards. This means your property has some unique thing about it that it may be able to qualify for a variance if we were able to meet seven specific findings. And these findings are specific. And this is a process that's established by state law, and we implement it through our town code. So this specific variance request is for table 18.79-8. So the applicant is looking for relief from the maximum number of monument signs allowed per street frontage, and for the separation requirement, that's 165 feet. So their proposed sign would be at about 88 feet from the nearest monument sign, and all the other standards would stay the same. So this is a table. I know it's hard to see, but I wanted you to see it. We do have an actual table, and it's in our code. And towards the top, it talks about the maximum number of signs per street frontage. And then towards the middle, you'll see where it says minimum spacing from other monument signs, 165 feet. All right. So the applicant is AJ Safeway Park, LLC. And you'll see that their parcel is kind of uniquely shaped . So these are the suites west of the Safeway store. So we're talking where Jerry Bob's is, where the Desert Math Academy is, that side. So they're not related in any way to the actual Safeway store. So they're the suites that are to the west of it. So the purpose of their variance request was to help tenant identification and provide a monument sign for those suites that do not have one on that side of the commercial center. So this is located near Duval Mine Road in La Caña. Like I said, it's to the west of the Safeway store. And you'll see where the closest existing monument sign is. And that's the one for the Safeway gas station. And then that's where their proposed sign location is. And again, the distance between these is approximately 88 feet. So these are the existing conditions, as seen from the road . So their parcel actually goes to about where you see that median in the entrance. That's almost where their property line is right there. And this is their proposed location of their monument sign. Which again is approximately 88 feet away. And our code requirements require 165 feet. So again, this variance request is relief from two requirements in our table. The requirement for maximum number of signs. And the separation distance requirement. And again, everything else will remain the same. And remain applicable to them. So for state law, in order to approve a variance, we need to prove that it can meet all these seven findings. These findings include special circumstances applicable to this property. They cannot be self-imposed by the property owner. Needs to be unnecessary hardship due to site conditions. Has to be the minimum relief necessary. There will be no detriment to surrounding properties. And no new use permitted by the variance. And the variance is not a condition of town council approval. So we'll go to finding number one. So for special circumstances, we noted that the shape of this parcel is different. They have a very narrow frontage on Duval, which is about 62 and a half feet. So what they're requesting is about as far away from that monument sign from where they could put it. And they have very limited places to actually put one. So staff felt that this finding can be met. For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, For number two, these were not self-imposed by the property owners. This site was developed long before they purchased it. And the existing sign locations were not created by them. So again, staff felt that this finding could be met. For unnecessary hardship. For unnecessary hardship. Again, the parcel is in any regular shape. And their limited frontage gives them very few opportunities to put up a sign. So staff felt this finding could be met. So for minimum relief necessary, the request is limited to only those two parts of our sign table. And there is no other relief requested for height or size. Like everything else will fit within our specifications that we allow in B2 zoning for monument signs. So the staff, we felt that this finding could be met. The property is located in an existing commercial area. There's a ton of monument signs going down Duval Mine Road. So we felt that there would be no, no detriment to surrounding properties. And again, we found that this finding could be met. So the request relates only to signage. There's no new land use being proposed. And as staff, we found that this finding could be met. And this request is not a condition of, of, of, of town council. So we found that this, this finding could also be met. For a public notice, we mailed all the, the surrounding property owners within 300 feet. We placed an ad in the Green Valley news. I believe it was two Sundays ago. And we posted an A-frame at the site. And to this date, we haven't received any public comment. So in summary for our findings, we found that all seven required findings could be met. And staff recommends approval of the variance request. Thank you. Thank you. Seeing some public here now. Is there anyone who would like to speak on public comment? Questions or comments? Seeing none, I'll call the public portion closed. Open up the questions from public. Yeah. I have a brief question. How close? On page 14, there's a, a close up photo. In fact, which we would post, is that like the proximal location? Exactly. That's why they're there. The applicant put those up to show us where. And that, that's, that's on the property as well. That's the location. Correct. It is on the property. And, and how far is it from that photo? I can't tell how far it's from the, um, the exit. Um, trying to get a better idea. So you'll see here, you can actually see those two posts in the picture. Okay. So they're actually, they're about 88 feet away. Yeah. Just the, the location to the, the exit of the, of the car, um, exit. Entrance next to the parking lot. So it looks like it's, I can't. I would say it's a room. Yeah. So it doesn't seem to be blocking any view. For anyone trying to like see, um, cars coming, um, in parking lots. Is, is, was, was the application, applicant ever, did they ever approach the Safeway monument, uh, like the, modifying that monument for the gas station? The Rio. In the conversations we had in our lobby, he said he had attempted to in the past and he'd never gotten very far with it. Okay. Which is why he, he decided to apply for the variance. Anyone else? Question? Uh, yes, yes, I do have a few, uh, I, I, what I'm wondering is, when was the, uh, code approved, uh, versus when the shopping center was built? So the, our sign code was, was redone in 2018. And for the commercial center, I'm not sure when that was fully built up. Acting chair, Alan, um, board member, Lisk, I can tell you when I started working for the town in 2008, that shopping center was there. So well before the code was reconfigured to the way that it is now. Correct. It was well before the code was proved. Yes, thank you. So on the top of the screen there's the Safeway sign, concrete sign, just to the right of where it says proposed sign location. Correct. And then there's a business sign that exists across the drive, across the entrance exit for the businesses that are on the north side. East. East side. East side. It's the one just below where it says stop sharing. Oh, yeah. East side. Yeah, that's another case of sign. Yeah, I understand. Bear with me for a second. So what's that distance between that Safeway concrete sign and the sign for the businesses that's adjacent to the Safe way Park Mall? I don't think it's in my slides, but when I was putting this together it's right around 517 feet. But I can pull up the mic. Can I pull up the mic? I'm talking about the one that's pretty much up there. I mean, I can underhand a stone and hit it from the Safeway concrete sign. That's why I'm trying to understand what that distance is there. The one with the Edward Jones building? Yes. Right here. I didn't see how it was there today and it's, I don't write , I'm not missing. I have, there it is. You mean up here? So to the right of your arrow. Up forward. Yeah, it's up that way. Yeah, pretty much, pretty much right there. What's that distance? I'll measure it, Larry. Because my question is, how did that get approved? If that's, yeah. How did that get approved if it's within, if it's within the code? I'm sorry, I'm working that wrong. If it does have the code. Board member LISC, it's about 80 feet. I just measured it on Pima Maps and that could have happened either because it was missed at the time or because those two signs predated the code. I don't recall the timing of that, the shopping center that 's to the northeast. I want to understand the timing because part of me says that there's a precedent already. It makes it easier to approve. I want to understand the timing, though, between those two because that seems to be, you know, even worse than what's being proposed here today. In terms of site views and location and the closeness to each other. Again, I just want to understand, was there a variance for that? Did it slide through with anybody knowing? And so when did that happen? I think that's a pretty important... I think that's a bit of information. There are two separate businesses. I don't see. I don't see the relevance. The relevance is they've already said that these are different businesses where... Okay, regardless whether they're different businesses or not, there's a code that says signs can't be within a certain space. In addition to that, I thought I heard them say that there are two businesses here involved. One related to the gas station sign and one related to the sign that represents the businesses that's outlined here. So to me, that's... So to me, that's... That is relevant. I have been able to find a development plan for that neighboring property that was approved in 2006, which would predate the code. It's actually submitted in 2006, approved in 2007. Okay. Then the other part is, is there... This is just kind of a side... Can you update the code, potentially? Because if we approve this today, now we have two instances , not just one. One with the variance. And if it seems to meet staff's conditions or considerations, why not just change the code? As I understand it, anything predates the introduction to code that's grandfathered in, right? Is that correct? Like, we're not... We're talking about the first adjustment to the code that's been implemented in 2018. So this is our first opportunity to talk about an adjustment where before there wouldn't have been any adjustment. As far as precedents, I do have a question as far as preced ents on any adjustment. Would someone with a similar property line, you know, with what we call it, I guess, the... What's the routing to use for roadway signage along the frontage section? So it's 165 minimum. So, how many other similar types of narrow property lines exist in the commercial property that we would potentially have? Again, one adjustment was made and if it comes up with similar circumstances, right? Would we be, you know, talking about the same thing? Okay. Okay. Okay. Versus change the code. Well, we haven't had an adjustment request or a variance request to this code provision since the code was implemented in 2018. So I would say it's... I'm not surprised. ...fairly unusual. We did not look at all of our commercial shopping centers to see how many potential variance requests there might be. They're handled on a case-by-case basis. So anytime we get a variance request, we go through the seven findings and make sure that they're met for that specific property. Right. And if it was something that was coming up repeatedly, then that would definitely call into question, like, there's a problem with the code. Okay, so there's a... Right. And this is my point I'm about to get to. If you look at, not only this situation, but also you go further on Duval Mine into South Macau. I mean, you have to go online. They... If you go past, say, where Alpameo is, there are signs there. But more importantly, if you take a look at the corner of the Quail... Oh, is that... I call it the extension all the time, but you know what I'm talking about. The Quail Creek, the Quail Boulevard. The connector road. Thank you. That's the connector road that intersects with South Nagal as. There's a similar situation with the Walmart sign that has some other businesses and the sign where Walgreens is. That clearly is not 165 feet. So, you know, to the point about adjusting the... There seems to be other places where this exists. That's not as good as a position or where this proposed sign is being considered. And so I just wonder why... How did those get approved without the code adjustment? And again, those predated the code. Okay, so that could be the code... I... I... I... I'm not... I guess I don't understand why they weren't included in the code or considered in the code since they already existed. Part of the intent of the sign code is to limit the number of monument signs to create a more aesthetic street front in the town. So by... By limiting the number of signs and by creating a minimum distance, it met that intent to make sure that you don't have monument signs too close to one another. Because they can also start... If they're too close, they start to block one another. So unless there's a special circumstance like in this case, staff feels that it's appropriate to maintain the 165 foot distance. For some of the newer shopping centers, for example, where the Sprouts is, they were able to meet all the requirements . They came in with a comprehensive sign plan and they met the requirements because they... Sure. And I'm not talking to the Sprouts, I'm talking to the other side. I know. But the shopping center that did come in after the code was able to meet those requirements. Okay. Again, this is perhaps a different conversation. But I could see more references like this coming up if the code doesn't get adjusted because they already exist in more than what's being requested here. I could tell you again, I mentioned three already. So in those examples, the signs, because they predated the code, they're considered legal non-conforming signs. So they're grandfathered in, they're allowed to remain, and they're considered non-conforming uses. We do have provisions in the zoning code for handling non- conforming signs. And like I said earlier, if we do start seeing a lot of var iances for this provision, then we'll take a look at updating the code to make sure that we don't have to process so many var iances and that we've got a code that works for our town. Okay. Thank you. And along those same lines, if for some reason Walmart went out of business and stole over Walmart, now they would have to change, they're going to put a business sign out there. They would have to meet the code or come in for a variance again to change a sign. So if they're just replacing a tenant panel, that's not considered a new sign. Now if they wanted to tear down the Walmart sign and build their own, then they would have to come in under the current. All right. Let's see. Yes. They have done that. Good. And we lived here for three years or so. And they've already done it. I see that. And I also have a couple other questions on this. So the sign will be going outside that concrete wall. Like on the street side of the concrete, the little foot wall that goes along the hard block. That short little wall, the wall. The sign will be on what we're from our wing, right? Is this the view you're talking about? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So there's a couple of trees there. Three trees I see. I'm guessing that sign is going to go in there. Yeah. It's going to be, they're actually going to take down a section of the wall. Oh, okay. And then go back up there. Okay. All right. Okay. Yeah, that's a lot better. And then, is this going to have multi-tenants on it? Or is it? Yes. It'll have up to six tenants on it. So not all of them will be on the monument sign. But they'll have up to six because that's what's in our monument. And so, also, as Stuart was mentioning earlier about that, the other Safeway sign has a Starbucks on the bottom. I see another opening. So someone would be okay to put their business there if they paid for that, right? Underneath the Safeway sign at Starbucks? No. That's just standard business there? Okay. Correct. That's all my questions. Anyone else? If there are any further questions or comments, I'll entertain a motion. I move to approve the variance that's presented by staff. I understand. Is it good? We're looking for support? One second. One moment. Cool. I want to make sure that our motion is very clear that all the findings have been met because it's a quasi-judicial process. So we're going to put the recommended motion up on the board for you. I will now entertain a motion on this item. Okay. I make a motion. I have found all seven required findings to be met. I move to approve the grant's application. Project case number SA10-26-001 as presented by staff. Second motion. There is a motion to approve and support. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays? Okay. I approve. The next item is the community development director. He's going to give us an update on the report. I have a motion to approve. I have a motion to approve and support. I have a motion to approve and support. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any nays? Okay. Any nays? Any nays? Okay. Any nays? Any nays? Okay. I approve. The next item is the community development director. He's going to give us an update on the last four years. What is going to be? Actually, in the interest of time, I'm just going to give you a top five. Interesting things going on with community development here in town. That you can be in the know with your friends and neighbors . So first up, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the next page. So, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the next page. So, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the next page. So, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the west side of I-19 . It's existed there for a number of years. So, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the west side of I-19 . It's existed there for a number of years. So, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the west side of I-19 . It's existed there for a number of years. So, if you're familiar with the neighborhood, known as Rancho Resort. That's an age restricted community on the west side of I-19 . It's existed there for a number of years. But there's a large area to the north of Rancho Resort. It's part of Rancho Resort. It just hasn't gotten platted or built out yet. We did receive last week a plaque for that area. So, it looks like Rancho Sahuarita is looking to expand Rancho Resort further to the north. That was 400 and something? Almost 500. Almost 500 new homes in that area. The Planning and Zoning Commission recently completed its work on a code amendment related to storage, parking, and occupancy of recreational vehicles. That's going to be going to town council later this month as a study session. And then to be approved by them later in the fall. If you have any questions about that, let me know about what exactly is in that code amendment. Planning staff is reviewing two new development plans for banks that are coming to town. Both of them from Idaho Central Credit Union. If you're asking yourself, why is an Idaho bank setting up two branches here in Sahuarita? They bought out old Pueblo Credit Union a year or two back and are using those assets to expand into southern Arizona. So, one of those development plans is for a site just nearby here, just to the east of the post office. That's a vacant lot right now. And then the second development plan is for an area down on Duval Mine Road, just south of the Two Girls Pizzeria. So, be looking for those in the near future. Planning staff has also reviewed a development plan for a Sherwin-Williams stand-alone store. If you've been to EG's lately, you might have seen some of that parking lot has been fenced off, looking like it's preparing for construction. A Sherwin-Williams is going to be going in there. So, the next time you go to EG's with your spouse and your spouse says, "I wonder what's going on here," you can show that you're in the know. You know what's going on. Finally, I think you've all probably followed the saga of Roadhouse Cinema, tracking them, bringing them into town to renovate the old Desert Sky Cinema. They have gotten started on work for that renovation, and I believe they are hoping to be open by Christmas, but for the holiday movie season, if not sooner than that. Finally, I am reminded that the general plan, which is the culmination of two years of work for staff, will be on your ballots next month. The general plan is updated every ten years, and it basically guides the policy decisions that we as staff and as elected officials make. On the ballot next month, you will see that as Proposition 420. So, just be aware of that. Spread the word. Tell your friends and neighbors to be looking for that. And that's all my update. How about the prop notes you assigned? 420 seems like a far out number. Wasn't it the same as the one that we just did in Rule 1? 4 19? 420? It might be. Pima County just assigns the numbers. I think they've got like dice in the back room, and they roll them and assign numbers. Alright, there's no perfect questions. And we'll see you guys. Oh, next, wait. We've got future agenda. I'm sorry. I didn't get to come. That's the next item. Yeah. Any future agenda items? I'm not sure the Board of Adjustments is the type of body that can come up with future agenda items on their own. Yeah, we just want to promise that we'll meet sooner than four years from now. Alright, well, this one's done on the call of the agenda at 4:30 p.m. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We can finish planning and doing it. It's early. We've got to do something. We're doing Shannon. How you doing? Good night. I have a question about what to do. What can we do to ensure that we serve another culture that gets considered for that new website. And then another guy took us out of the window asking about because that's a major fallout. Right. It's on our way. Yeah. But it wasn't for the very last vote. It was actually just directly south of the building. So like that first apartment agreement. So it triggered me to take a look at it. Thank you so much. Because the planning commission looked at that first. Hi, Bill. How are you? Good. Staying out of trouble? And you're talking about this. So what would it be if you have to reshown if you're doing it? So the reshowning, though, could include the requirement for access. Thank you. So, any tickets left? Because I've got to get one. Yeah. Because it's just a big one. We have utilities running for the town for all kinds of things. So it's not something that requires any kind of variance from the zoning code. When we're looking at the payroll lines, it's based on regulations in the zoning code. So they can't quite need it. Well, not quite. I mean, you did have a few questions that you had to answer . You put all those reams of documents there. I know. I just want to ask you questions. This doesn't really have to do with this. Would you be a good person? Can I ask you a favor? I could give that for you. I'll give that for you. And probably provide much more information. I could give that for you. I would go to my own sign. I had to install my own sign. And someone else's sign. And then... So, if you could take good out of it. Just something you should bring in. You should bring in. You can help people. You can help people. You can help people. I mean, I'm in charge of the court. I'm speaking to someone. I could stay with them. I'm in charge of people. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. I don't know if that's it. And maybe I can get a free than the one I got in the kitchen. You wouldn't even go to McDonald's and you got one meal snack. That's a great. I probably shouldn't. Right. So my question is, this is more than just an exception. Now you have a few of them, actually like four of them. Why not just update the code and make it, update the code in a way that meets, so you can word it in a way that meets all your conditions. So we don't have to go through this. Because it doesn't make sense to go through this since they already exist in like, like four different locations. That's partially why we changed the code because when you see that number of signs, it's not an aesthetic that the town was looking for. So we changed the code to reduce the number. Yet you brought one today. Because of the exceptional circumstance of the narrow property. So if they didn't have that. Sure, but why not just, okay, but why not just change the signage on one of the Safeway signs like someone said, have, instead of just having a plain old concrete Safeway sign, why not have the multi-business that includes Safeway? It already has Starbucks. I realize they're in the store. But why not just have one of the Safeway that could be another thing? I think that's a good question. Yeah.

He's on YouTube too much. This Jeep is crazy. We typically have pretty civil members of the public speaking out, even when they don't agree with what's going on and they're upset. Most people have been pretty civil about it. That's what it's for. They can put this glass on, but they can't do our window. They don't think so. All right. We are at 6:00 p.m. for military time, 1800 hours. And we will now begin the order of the Solidarity and Planning and Zoning Commission. Would you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. We'll take the roll call. Chair Ferguson. Present. Vice Chair Millett. Present. Commissioner Brown. Present. Commissioner Rao. Present. And Commissioner Escamilla is not present. Do you like how I got the chair and vice chair correct this time? We have a quorum. Okay. All right. Agenda item number four is the approval of the minutes from the last Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, which we go on March 2nd, 2026. I'll entertain a motion to approve in the second. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd as presented by staff. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I have a motion to approve the minutes from March 2nd. I received a map that was requested at the last study session. It was prepared by Dylan Perry. What we asked him to do was to highlight the rural zones in blue and the residential zones in green. You will see that some of the specific plan areas are highlighted with green. And that's because they defer to the current code. Rancho Cerita is not included because they have their own code that they go by. Okay. So I am presenting the zoning code text amendment addressing the parking and storage of private recreational vehicles. Case number S-A-8-25-00004. A little background on the text amendment. Prior to this amendment, the section has been untouched basically since the town adopted the Pima County Code. During the TUP discussion, elements of the RV section was discussed. It was then decided that we should update the RV section of the code. Over the past few years, staff has also received code enforcement complaints involving RV parking and RV storage. The planning commission held two study sessions previously with the most recent taking place December 1st in 2025. So the existing code is pretty short. There are three parts of it. And if you look at the red lines, you can follow along with me. The first part indicates that an RV can be parked on any rural or residential zone with the following placement conditions. One, that it must be parked at the rear of the principal dwelling. And two, it must be parked in the garage, ramada, or behind planting of sufficient height to shield it from view. The second piece indicates that one RV is permitted by right in any rural or residential lot. And the third part indicates that additional RVs can be allowed but are required to go through a type 1 conditional use permit. These are the three pieces that are part of the current code. With the limited language involving RV parking and storage, there are elements of the code that it doesn't address. It doesn't address setbacks. The only RV setback language includes that it must be parked at the rear of the principal dwelling. Side and rear yards are not provided or defined. Screening is also not defined. It basically says it must be parked in the garage, ramada, or behind plantings to shield it from view. There are no specifics on the type of planting, the height of the plants, or the density that's required for the shielding. The next part of the code involves guests. There is no mention of guests on whether or not a property owner can host people with RVs. The last limit involves staging or temporary staging of RVs . This is when an owner cleans or preps the RV for use or closes it at the end of the season. So basically our proposal is broken down into three sections. It's basically a rewrite. So it involves storage of unoccupied RVs, temporary occup ancy of RVs on private property, and temporary parking of RV s in the right of way during the prepping or staging period. So the first part of the rewrite recognizes that there must be a primary residential structure if an RV is to be stored . The existing code assumes that there's a primary structure in place. We kept the original language indicating that one RV is permitted by right in both rural and residential zones. The last planning commission meeting discussion on differences between rural and residential took place. Feedback from the commission indicated that rural zones should have less restriction than residential zones. Staff took the feedback and separated the zones into two separate sections of the code. We created a rural zone section and a residential zone section of the code. So the rural zone section requires a 20 foot setback from the side and rear with an option to store an RV at the front of the property. Rural zones also have the option of reducing their front yard setback down to 15 feet with a modification of setback application process through the community development department. So the Anna would be the person reviewing and approving or not approving the application. The director also has the option to require additional screening if they choose to use the front yard option. The residential storage differences include storage at the rear of the main structure only. There is no option to park your RV and store it in the front yard. The minimum setbacks are per the accessory structure set backs or a minimum of five feet. In the staff report there is a table that shows you what the accessory structure setbacks would be in each zone. There is also another requirement for residential storage and that is a six foot solid wall for screening. The next section of the rewrite includes the temporary occupancy of RVs or guests when they come to stay. In this section the code discusses the temporary occupancy of RVs by guests and breaks it down based on lengths of stay. For stays up to five days there is no process, no zoning clearance will be required, and there is no fee. For guests staying up to ten days there is a zoning clearance process and a $25 fee. There is a max number of days that occupied RVs can be on site in every six month period and that is 15 days. So if a property owner wishes to add an additional RV on site, they will be required to go through the type one conditional use permit process. It is an administrative process. It does require public notice for property owners within 300 feet and there will be a $160 conditional use permit fee. It is an administrative process. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is an administrative process. It is an administrative process. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. It is a temporary occupancy of RVs. 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Yeah, I have some questions regarding the temporary occup ancy. Is there any difference between the temporary occupancy between rural and residential zoning? Yeah. Sorry. What is the logic on, I can understand maybe residential temporary occupancy restrictions, but what is the logic of not allowing a rural to have occup ancy like any other, I think, structure, such as the AU? Commission Chair, Vice Chair Millett. So the temporary occupancy is for guests that are visiting. That is, there is not a difference between rural or residential. If the property owner can accommodate the temporary occup ancy of visitors, we were not given direction on whether or not we needed to separate those two. So it's applied across the board. Yeah. And maybe the discussion that we had talked about setbacks. But in my mind, last time there was, there were some differences on also temporary occupancy. I can see rural treating the RV a lot like an ADU in some sense. I don't see why that would be a bother to their neighbors given that if they have the space they can treat it as an ADU. I think you have some guidelines on what an ADU looks like. You can't have an RV, you have to connect the dots on that. If they treated an RV like an ADU and have more permanent visitors. I've seen my neighbors do that. I wouldn't expect because of the neighborhood that I live in in the rural that they would have to have a permit and be limited only 15 days every 6 months. I would recommend, I want more information about how this connects to the ADU's code and if there is some sort of connection where an RV can be utilized like an RV for more permanent visitors. But beyond 15 days. Currently, neither the existing code nor the code revision anticipates that an RV could be used as a permanent occup ancy, an ADU that is permanently occupied. In fact, there might even be language that specifically prohibits the RV from being used as a permanent occupant, permanently occupied structure. What would be the reason for prohibiting that in the rural area? What would be the reason? I would think fire safety, hygiene. I don't think RVs are designed to be occupied permanently. I mean, is that back to the idea that I'm just trying to understand other than maybe your rationale? Does that come from... I think there's plenty of owners who would disagree with that on the army lot that would say... Sorry, not army lot. A rural lot that would say, hey, I have a son or a daughter that I'm going to... I think there's plenty of people that would feel more comfortable. In fact, I know... I know the fact that there are plenty of those. I know too personally that that would be now a change in their, I guess, lawful use of their RV and they would disagree. If I may jump in, Chairman and Vice Chairman. We do have standards for accessory dwelling units. Those are in a different chapter of the town code. And there was extensive conversation with both the commission and the council when we adopted those regulations. And like Nathan said, there were considerations that had to do with health and safety as well as aesthetics. So the ADU provisions allow a tiny home on wheels when it's attached to a foundation and either ground set or skirted. And the ground setting or skirting or foundation, that's where the aesthetics come into play. So where you're talking about an RV as a permanent occup ancy, I would say that that would be more of a revision to the accessory dwelling unit chapter of the town code versus the RV chapter of the town code. Because we're really talking about it in your context as a permanent dwelling unit where the section that's open tonight for amendment is temporary. Yeah, but you're also taking away individuals' use of their property at this point. We're on a rural side where they use their RV for one of those. It shouldn't be. If people are permanently living in RVs, that shouldn't be happening. Well, the prior code didn't say anything other than that they couldn't live here. It didn't allow it. If we had a report that somebody was living permanently in an RV in somebody's backyard, that would have been a code compliance issue. Can you point to the slides where that kind of, where you were saying what was allowed on the prior code? I was trying to read that and I didn't really see that. If an RV were set on the wheels and had a skirting, would that qualify as an ADU? I think you would have to go through an ADU section of it. Okay. Now, a tiny home would qualify and an RV would not. They're built to different standards. An RV is not built to a HUD standard where a tiny home would be. I can't read it. You probably can blow it up a little more. Oh, sorry. All right. So what that says in B1 is not in use for residential purposes. So it's allowing that storage when it's not in use for residential purposes. Just, yeah, how to not use, how it's stored, right? I'm not reading anything where the recreation vehicle cannot be used for residential purposes. Any vehicle not in use for residential purposes may be stored. Correct. So the interpretation there is it may be stored if it's not in use for residential purposes. If it is in residential purpose, it may not be stored. Yeah, I don't read the illustration on this one, so. As the zoning administrator, I would read that to say that if it is in use for residential purposes, it may not be stored or parked. Which sentence is that? Sorry. There will be one. It's a permissive code. So we're permitting the use if it's not being used for residential purposes. So by not stating that it can be occupied, it's not allowed . It's a permissive code. Yeah. I don't agree that much into what's not allowed for temporary. Before you were saying that there's not much on how long the temporary use would be. I don't see whether it's not permitted or permitted. It's just, it talks about storage here. Right. If it's silent, it's not permitted. Okay, well, I guess I'm in the opinion that a rural zone would be more permissive on the occupancy. But I'm trying to understand what, I mean, if we're going to amend this and eliminate it, then I would recommend that you would come up with language that would allow perm issible use of an RV for more than just a temporary use of 15 days. Maybe six months. Chairman, vice chair, I would recommend that if you want to have that amendment made, that we make that amendment to the accessory quelling unit section of the code. And what would be an example of that? I mean, we're not prepared tonight to make that amendment. No, no, we haven't advertised that. We can't do that. That's right. So what would be an example of an amendment that might be permitted? If we were going to do that, we would open up the accessory dwelling unit standards and include an RV on a rural lot as an appropriate ADU. Okay. And would they have to be permitted at that point in time too? Just like any, you know, billing of an ADU? Yes. And that permit would be the same standards? Or they would have like a, maybe a standard related to an RV? That would depend on how the ADU amendment was written. So that would be open for conversation at that point in time. So what we'll be looking for tonight from the commission is , is the commission as a whole recommending that we move forward with a separate amendment related to ADUs? So we'll want to hear consensus from the commission on that topic. But tonight I would say we can't include that in the vote. That would be a whole separate amendment. Yeah. I realize, I think I would recommend that you would do that . If you want to take that to a vote, then that would appease me. Because I have concerns. I think there's plenty of logical reasoning for, and these are friends and neighbors who have used for their son prefers to be in their own separate private spot and they have an RV and no one on this rural area really notices that type of, because their lots are so large, you would not notice that. And I think it makes more sense on the road. But I can see how that would change the dynamics in the residential. Before we vote on that, are there any other questions? I think that, I understand. So I've been listening to you and I understand what you're saying. I think it's becoming more common for college kids to come home and have some sort of living situation behind the parents. Whether it's a small home or whatnot. But I believe that we're supposed to set the ideal. And there's always going to be people that are going to do things and it's our job whether to turn a blind eye as a neighbor or not. And I think that if you turn a blind eye to your neighbor, I think that would be okay. But I still think we're here to set the precedence and the ideal to keep things in order. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. Yeah. Well, just thank you, Laurie, and Commissioner Brown. I really think you're right when you want to set some standards that make sense to set standards for the type of what we have on this map, you know, rural zones and residential zones. Everything in blue, as I understand, that rural is about four acre lots. Is that right? So I think people who purchase those types of property, they have an expectation of a more robust use of the property than residential. And people who move into residential areas understand they 're closer to the neighbors. And so, yeah, I would be -- I know we can't vote on it, but I would prefer that we, like, to sell this. I would recommend this motion as is. I would like to have that scheduled at a later time to address that. Because, I mean, I could call up, you know, several of my neighbors and say, hey, you know, this is going to affect you. You might want to, you know, let your council member know. And I think that they would be very interested. I'm not trying to rile up that. I'm just trying to say that that would actually be an interest to them, of how that's changing. So, anyway, that's all I have to say. Outside of the potential for the discussion on the ADU as a RV, as a hope equal to a tiny home, set that aside just for a minute or two. Are there any other questions on the proposed motion as presented? I do have one question. And that was the $160 fee. There's the -- I think you said up to five days is $25. It might be at the $160. It might be at the $160. It might be at the $160. It is. Commission Chair Ferguson. The $160 fee is the fee for a conditional use permit. So, this would move forward if the property owner would like to add an additional RV. So, they have one that they can use as temporary occupancy. If they -- say, for example, they have two relatives visiting, they both have RVs, and they want to visit at the same time, then they would go through the CUP type 1, and that would be the administrative process along with -- and that's the CUP type 1 fee for everything. And the $25 is just the permit for the extra days? Correct. That is the zoning clearance fee for up to 10 days for guests. Okay, got it. Remind me, what the storage of -- how many on the residential? How many RVs can be stored on the residential? Vice Chair Millett. The number that can be stored on site is 1. For residential and rural? Correct. By right. By right. There is the option to add an additional RV, and that is through -- let's see. Oh, I forgot. I see. Can you find this section really quick? To store a second? To store a second. Is it an additional? It's a type 1. It's a type 1 conditional use permit. So, it would be the $100 application. One -- or -- Or 160. 160. 160 one time? Right. Conditionally use permit type 1 process. Right. For each additional or just one additional more? So, two. Or rural. I mean, we have -- we have certain -- are you talking about out in the open or just any storage, cupboard, garage, you know, cupboard, side or, you know, top -- I mean, what kind of -- what kind of -- is that RV storage is allowed if someone has, you know, they have space to park three RVs in a garage, and they don't want RV garages that exist today. I know I have some neighbors behind me that have that size of garage that -- actually, both sides, you know, one to the south and one to the east, and their garages are built to accommodate very large vehicles, more than three, I think, up to three. So, are they allowed to get at one time -- times, you know, for two -- if they have three RVs, can they get three? Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one RV permitted outright, Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- if there are -- if there's an additional RV, then that's where the type one -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- if there 's an additional RV, then that's where the type one -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- so it's up to two or it could be three, it could be four? Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- we did not work additional language into the -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- Vice Chair Millett, the verbiage is one of the -- I think the difficulty in keeping it wide open are in those situations when an individual doesn't have the three RV storage structure. I think depending on the size of the property. I was looking at the differences between rural and residential. So for rural, you have a little under an acre up to four. So that's sort of the range. And maybe that's something that if it's language that you would like to include that allows additional storage of RV vehicles, I think we should have a max because you don't want to create a situation where you're having rural residential storage of four or five RVs. I mean, because there are commercial businesses that store vehicles like that. In cases like that, then you – there's a tipping point where you get to the point where how many RVs are two in any. So, I think what I'm understanding and I think if I interpreted the language and you could correct me is that every time you exceed the one per right, there is always an application and it is reviewed by the planning director and committed by the planning director based on, you know, I don't know if there's strict guidelines or not, but it would be – let's say in the case that someone did have a four acre or had a two RV garage. I'm thinking of my neighbors. And so when they will – there are RVs into those two of them in there and then they have one store, there's only one visible. So, I mean, wouldn't that be in the case where they – for each additional, they could do an application for that and still be allowed under the weight that you've written the code? Chairman, Vice Chairman Millett, I would have to agree with Orlanthea that we would want to cap it because at some point, how many RVs does one family really own? Once you get past a certain number of RVs, it's – it's fairly obvious that they don't belong to the people who own the property and that they're storing them for crimes or renting out space and just not calling it a business. And then there are requirements that should be triggered that are not being triggered and we end up with compliance issues. Sure. I mean, but again, their property is their property. So, I mean, it may not be a business they want to store for a friend. I agree you could set a max, but what's the logical max that you're thinking in your mind? Is it two? Because I think my neighbors would disagree. I would suggest checking in with the commission and see what the rest of the commission thinks, if there's support for moving forward with that idea or not . Well – We're here to take direction from the commission. I'm here to allow – yeah, I'm – true. And I'm thinking if you want to max, then you can put, you know, up to two additional. So that would be three. I think that would make sense on my neighbors. Only if I met the structural requirements of shading, screening, visual. That's where I'm at. Yeah. I mean, if there's one that's visible or by right, what's there and they've got two extra, and it's not visible to anybody. I don't – that wouldn't bother me, but I wouldn't go above three. Total. That's my thing. I agree with – that we know more than one RV. I don't know anyone that needs more than one. And I really appreciate the application process without having to state numbers. I think that's – that's what I'm saying. I think that's what I'm saying. And I think she's more than qualified to make the decision of someone to have one or two or three based on the application. Is that one of the reasons the application is said and said so? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I think – I think what you're wanting already exists. It's just maybe a different process than you want. I don't think we need to say two or three for them to be allowed two or three. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. 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I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. I think that's a different process. So as long as we understand what you want, we can just roll that language into the motion and we'll take care of it. Okay. We'll be ready for the motion. I can bring it to the people. Before we do that, another question. So when a person's applying for a CUP, is there a visual inspection required? Do they have to take photos of their property to show their compliance? I'm just curious. That's a good question. Do you want to take that one, Olivia? Type 1 CUP? Oh. Commission Chair, it's dependent on the type of CUP. Most often, staff will go out and do a quick inspection, but it's pretty simple. We coordinate with the applicant, let them know what we're looking at, and then do the inspection and come back out. So it's built into the CUP process? It's not an official part, but we're pretty flexible and we can go out and work with the applicant. I'm curious more than anything, because people are people and they may say things that aren 't true. But that's a good place to put it. Well, we hope that the applicants are honest and upfront with us, and we take what they put down on the application as the truth. And the only time we would hear differently is if we get a complaint. That's just something to consider in the CUP process, which is separate than what we're talking about here. And then the other thing is, do we need a separate vote on the use of an RV as an ADU? No, we wouldn't want to vote, just a general sense of direction from the commission. Okay, well, we'll take care of that after we do the vote for that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. For the CUP, for the CUP, I actually like that idea. We all have phones and cameras. I would like to see that in language, someone to take a picture if you choose to go out and look at the area. But I think there's something to be said for having the record of the land. It's such an easy thing to do, so I think we should do it. So I would like to appropriate a picture with the application of the CUP. So, so far we've heard, I think, some language that we're going to, in addition, we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. So, I think that we're going to have a couple of different things that we're going to have to do. 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We're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. And we're going to have to do that. And we're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. And we're going to have to do that. We're going to have to do that. that's where your number will come right are you talking about out in the open or a garage well my neighbor has a double rv garage okay so you don't see it no i don't see it he has a second one that he parks outside and then one but the two are like one's in the double rv and one and i've seen these garages you're talking about they're massive yeah they're common um but yeah most people don't have bridges for three rvs i would say they're common well i could just count my neighbor about seven or eight properties that have this type of storage for three rvs no yeah actually yeah they're very large structures so what do you think they're doing with three rvs that's what i'm trying to get at what is this i understand you're nice and you want to protect them but in all honesty in your heart of hearts what do you think's going on with all your neighbors at three rvs what's going on what i was saying is that my neighbors have structures with your rvs i don't know how many rvs each of my neighbors have i know my neighbors house too um the use of their structures for their own personal use if they wanted to to three and for the reasons i just described they could have two personal or they could have some family members that want to store their rv that's not that's common for family members to pull and have storage and if it's not a business then you know they're they're up to three sounds to me like a reasonable number so i i think lori i'm not disagreeing with you i'm saying that you know you know i'm not disagreeing with you i'm not disagreeing with you i'm not saying that you know i just don't want to build the code for your neighbor i mean i feel i mean in los angeles we had to follow codes with our business we had we had two tons and ten tons and we wanted to park them on our property and we and a number of other features um who provides the opportunity, the opportunity it's helpful as your provision option. 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But I think that a three is a reasonable cap, and that helps avoid this accidentally turning into business for people. So before we take a vote, we still have a public meeting that we have to take care of. So at this time, we will open the public hearing to members of the public who would like to speak about this item. There's a three minute limit per speaker. Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... I would use the public process... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... Any of our town... I would have so wish somewhere... on this matter and allow for any last-minute questions from the Commission with a reminder, or at least what we've brought up so far, is that, I adopted the recommendation as noted on the screen with the caveat that for rural zoning, there has been some discussion of up to three total, one by right, two additional, or non-business use via type 1 CUP. Oh, CUP, okay. That's where I wanted to make sure. It would still go through the application? Yes. Okay, perfect. Yes. So with that as the caveat, I will entertain a motion for that. I'll do the motion. I move to forward a recommendation of approval of the zoning code tax amendment case number SAA- 25-00004 with the recommendations as provided in our discussion related to the rural zoning storage, in addition to the one by right and the type 1 CUP application of an additional, up to two additional more, a total of three for the intent of a non-business usage. I second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No opposition. The motion passes. All right. We need a break after that discussion. I appreciate the commission discussion on this. It's good to get it out and make sure that we're all understanding the same thing, whether or not there's a total agreement, that's okay. All right. The next item is a study session. This is a new item on our agenda that will be in perpetuity , for lack of a better term. Indeed. It will be cycled through, it's training, commission training, ethics for boards and commission. And then, the proposal, as deputy director, who, Eric and I exchanged emails on, was, this would be a recurring topic for each meeting. And then, once we get to the ethics training, then we'll just start over. Because during that period of time, there's a possibility that we would have new commissioners and we'd need to repeat that just the same. So, with that, turn the time back over to you, deputy director, Eric. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the commission. As the chair had mentioned, I am building a curriculum for training of commission members with the intent that it would take us about a year and a half to two years to cycle through every topic. So, that every two years, you'll get a refresher on one of these training topics. The intent is not to ever hold a commission meeting. If this is the only thing to do for that meeting, these trainings will always piggyback on a meeting that already has some other formal business for the commission to take care of. So, having said that, tonight's training will be on code of ethics for boards and commissions. Okay. I'll just... Okay. So, a code of ethics is basically a code. A statement that outlines an organization's core values and behavioral expectations. It provides that framework for decision-making for commission members and even for council members. And it ensures that not only do we act with integrity and accountability, that we act with the appearance of integrity and accountability, which builds trust with the community. Next slide, please. So, as it turns out, the town of Saverita has a rules of procedure handbook that's for council, for the council, for boards, and commissions. I believe I included a link to that handbook in the meeting package for tonight. If you did not receive that, I can send that out as an email again tomorrow. But chapter 9 of that handbook includes that code of ethics for our boards and commissions. Next slide, please. Okay. So, I'm going to go through each of these items very briefly, actually. These are topics that are considered in that code of ethics in our boards and commission handbook. The handbook goes through this with a lot more detail than what I'm going to do tonight. And I'm only going to touch on what each of these items means and give some examples of these ethical principles. So, first, public trust. The code of ethics states that officials shall act impart ially and not give preferential treatment to any private organization or individual. As commissioners, you do have the responsibility to make decisions based on what's good for the town as a whole and not for any one individual within the town. Confidentiality will probably come up less as a commission than if you were a council. You will come into contact with confidential information less often, I think. But these principles states that an official shall not knowingly disclose information which they know or reasonably should know is confidential. Probably a more... Probably... That's the word I'm looking for. More relevant is the second principle, unconfidentiality. An official shall not knowingly use or disclose any information gained during or because of their official position. So, if during the course of your duties as a commission member you gain some information that should be confidential, that is information that should not be used for any sort of gain. So, it's not just about disclosing of confidential information, but it's also about using confidential information. The principle on improper use for personal gain. No public body member shall use or attempt to use the public body member's position to secure any valuable thing or valuable benefit. Don't go to Ace Hardware and say, I'm a zoning commissioner. Can I have this widget for half price? Please do not use your position as a commissioner to gain any sort of... Anything of value. Even a 50 cent widget. In addition, no public body member shall, during the term for which they have been elected or appointed, knowingly accept or receive for their use from the town any money or other thing of value. So, you do serve as a volunteer. So, please don't accept bribes, gifts, or other gratuities for your service. When it comes to relations with other commission members and with the town as a whole, no member shall act or create the appearance of acting or speaking on behalf of the town. If you're, for some reason, being interviewed by KGUN9 or the Green Valley News, please make sure that you indicate that you are not speaking on behalf of the town, that your opinions are not those of the town. Related to that, no member shall use their official authority or position to influence an election. What comes to mind here is the election we have for the general plan coming up in July. However, on that ballot, there will also be council members up for re-election. So, please do not use your official position as a commission member to endorse a position or a candidate or try to sway an election in one way or another. Part of this also, part of the same principle about relations with commissioners, no member shall have conversations or voice and opinion regarding a quasi-judicial matter that is pending before the public body except during a notice meeting or hearing on the matter. I think we kind of touched on this when we had our open meeting law training a few months ago, which will be part of the curriculum that we cycle through. But if there is a pending item coming before the commission , don't opine in public about that item. Only do so when you're here at a properly noticed meeting. When it comes to conflicts of interest, I think this is one thing that everybody thinks of when they think of a code of ethics. Conflict of interest occurs when a public body member or relative of the appointed official has a substantial interest in a matter that may come before the public body during the public body member's term of office. So, if you owned an RV storage business, perhaps you should have disclosed that and recused yourself from tonight's proceedings. But, you know, more seriously, if you own a share of ACE hardware, and I don't know why I keep going to that as my example, and ACE hardware is in front of the commission asking for a conditional use permit, please, you know, disclose those conflicts of interest and let us know, you know, that you've got those relationships with ACE and that you should not be, or that you should be recusing yourself from that discussion. I'll also direct your attention. In this handbook, there is a section on how you would declare a potential conflict of interest should one arise. Which brings us to the gift clause. It shall be a violation for any public body member to solic it, receive, or accept a gift, favors, or economic benefit from anyone who attempts to influence the passage or defeat of any pending or proposed matters and are subject to formal approval by the public body. That's a fancy way of saying don't take bribes. I'm not a lawyer, and I'm going to allow time for Palladini to cut in if he's still listening. If he wants to contribute to this. But my interpretation would be if it's swag that's generally available to the public, it's not really a gift to you as a commissioner. What we're interested in here is something that is specifically given to you as a commissioner because you're a commissioner. I think it's nominal, but there's probably a nominal value there, probably the language that you said so. I think one day I could comb some brownies or chips that were left over that could be considered a gift. I didn't pay for it, but I think it's nominal. I'll double check with legal counsel on that, but you're probably right there. He's probably some minor nominal value threshold. And then the final item on the ethical principles here is ex parte contact. This was covered briefly when we were talking about the open meeting laws. Ex parte means one-sided, and it refers to the commission giving one side of a planning case information that the other side does not have, and thus benefiting one side of the issue over the other. Just reading directly from the handbook, ex parte contact occurs when a public body member in a quasi-judicial proceeding communicates directly or indirectly with any person or party in connection with the matter before the public body for decision, absent of notice and opportunity for all parties to participate. So when we communicate with any party in any planning case, we have to communicate with all parties. We cannot be having one-sided conversations with just one side or the other. So I believe that's all my slides. I did a very, very brief overview of ethics. It's a much more complicated topic than what I was able to give here in just the five minutes. I do invite you to read through that handbook. And if you have any questions, better to ask Anna and I before it becomes a problem than after. I'm going to reverse the old saw. In this case, it is better to ask permission than forgiveness, rather than the other way around. Okay. So John, if you're still on, is there anything you would like to add? We can't hear him. Judicial. It really refers to the Board of Adjustment. It sits as a quasi-judicial body. Quasi-judicial meaning sort of like a judge. So the Board of Adjustment, if you're familiar with it, has a different set of standards. So just to clarify that I agree with Nathan that you should avoid only listening to one side if people approach you. I also agree with Nathan that it's best practice, not legally required, but the information you receive should be received from the packet and from the public hearings themselves. It doesn't mean that zoning lawyers can't approach you and lobby you and your decision to meet with them or not. But when you do that, you should disclose that on the record that you met with the zoning lawyer or the applicant or somebody at the meeting. So there's school disclosure. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Palladini. So with that, that ends my training for tonight. The next time we meet, whenever that may be, I'm planning our training topic to be about APA membership, which is the American Planning Association, and how you as commissioners can get the most out of that APA membership. So that is all I have for tonight, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Deputy Director. Any questions for Mr. Barrett? All right. Next item on agenda is the Community Development Director's Report. Okay. I've got a few items to go through, Mr. Chair and members of the commission. First up, as you know, the general plan is going to be on the ballot, on your July 21st ballot. Within the last month, we have been assigned a proposition number for the general plan. It is Prop 420. We have made up little business cards with QR codes on them . I will distribute these to commission members who are interested. The QR code takes you to the webpage that has information about the general plan, as well as a copy of the general plan itself. It does not advocate one way or the other, because we are not allowed to advocate for one way or the other on any election item. But it does inform people about what exactly is going to be on that ballot. So Proposition 420, and I will provide those cards for you at the conclusion of the meeting. At our last commission meeting, we discussed non-conforming uses. That is on the council agenda for May 26th. So in a little less than a month, council will be considering that item. Mr. Palladini had mentioned something that I added to my list of updates. There's a Board of Adjustments meeting coming up. I don't recall the exact date. June 9th. June 9th. It's during the day. This is of note, because the Board of Adjustments maybe meets once a year, once every two years. It's not a regularly meeting body like the Planning and Z oning Commission is. If you are available during the day, I invite you to come. 4 p.m. It's at 4 p.m. And sit in the audience and watch those proceedings. Next up is our Industrial Zone code update. A few months ago, we contracted with a company called Safe Build to do an overhaul of our industrial zones. They have done interviews with stakeholders in the region and in the town. Some chambers of commerce. Some major landholders. Just to get a feel for industrial development potential here in the town. As well as the needs to actualize that potential. They are currently working on a technical report that summarizes all those initial findings. At this point, we're going to put a brief pause on that study until the fall. And in the fall, we're going to do some more public outreach and study sessions. So you can expect to see something in the fall with our consultants relating to this Industrial Zone code update. Having said that, this item has been on our department's radar for several years. We're just getting around to it now. It's just coincidence that we're getting to this at a time when data centers are the hot topic in planning. So one of the reasons why we are taking this pause is to make sure that we've got our ducks in a row and that the public does not incorrectly inflate the reasons for this study. There is no connection to Project Blue or data centers or anything of the like. It just happens to be that this is when we got around to doing this Industrial Zone code update. Next item on my report, I just got back from the National Planning Conference in Detroit. It was a lovely event. I'm not going to give you a full rundown. I've got like eight or nine pages of notes. I gave Anna a rundown of about three pages of that and her eyes started rolling in the back of her head. She tipped out of her chair and had to be resuscitated. What I will say is I attended two conference sessions in Detroit about data centers. Both of those conference centers were the most attended sessions that I was in during the week. I think planners all over the country are eager to learn as much as they can. We are all grappling with this new technology, this new land use, and trying to figure out what is best for our communities in this regard. Shifting geared to some building code updates or building safety department updates. Just recently, within the last month, the town council adopted our building code updates. This is something that happens every six years. It's not usual for a municipality to just adopt the building codes as they are. There are usually local amendments to craft the building codes to fit our own local needs. So there was a lot of work that the building safety team went into these very dense building codes and pulled out the items that needed specific local amendments. But those have been adopted. They will go into effect on July 1st. And then finally, again, from... I have a quick question. Yes. On those building codes, how is the adoption process? I would have to defer to Hannah, but it does involve study sessions. There was a meeting of the Board of Appeals. Not the Board of Adjustments, the Board of Appeals. They met for the first time in like two years, I think, in order to review those amendments. And then similar to the way that you make recommendations to council, they voted to recommend to council. And then council had their own study sessions and then adopted. But I will defer to Hannah. Thank you, Nathan. That was a pretty good overview. It was a long process. It was something that took about a year. There was stakeholder involvement as well. So lots of meetings with builders, with Saba. We engaged with MPA, which is the Metropolitan Pima Alliance. And like Nathan said, two different Board of Appeals meetings to get their expert opinions. They're all technical experts, so they're an interesting board. They're not... They're actually not required to be town residents. There are specific educational or occupational requirements that come with each of those seats to make sure that we have specialties that represent each of the trades. So interesting process, long process, but it's done. So we're very excited. Those amendments will go into effect July 1. So between now and July 1, we're still taking plans under the 2018 or the 2024 codes. But come July 1, we're going to be looking for all those plans to be submitted under the new codes. Thank you. One of the services that our building safety team provides is a pre-construction meeting with any group or company that's building anything here in the town of Saborita. They'll meet on site with the contractor and their subcont ractors, introduce key players with the town, key contacts, provide a folder of information. I mention this because today we had two pre-construction meetings, one with five below, which will be coming to town here in the near future. They're just doing a tenant improvement. They're taking an existing space and just modifying it to fit their needs. The second pre-construction meeting today was with Road house Cinema. So we've been talking about this for, I want to say, over a year about them coming to town. But now we're at the point where they're close enough to start actual physical work that we had our pre-construction meeting with them this morning. Recepts getting updated? The old Desert Sky Cinema. They are revamping and rehabilitating that building. Okay. And that is all seven of my update items. Very good. Deputy Director Barrett, any news on Chick-fil-A that you can share? Nothing that I know for sure. I know that Economic Development has been working with Chick-fil-A to have these pop-up events to try to demonstrate to Chick-fil-A that there is not only demand, but a sustained demand. And I think there are a couple more pop-ups still planned for this summer. So, again, they're not just measuring demand, but they're measuring whether that demand will exist beyond just the novelty of, hey, there's a pop-up tonight. But whether it's an actual sustained demand for it. Thank you. Okay. Now we'll move on to the next agenda item number eight, which is future efforts. Okay. I think at this point, we're looking at the next couple months of rest for our commission. We've got nothing on the burners. I did mention that we'll be doing some study sessions this fall on industrial zones. We may also be bringing to commission in the fall anything from the legislature, anything that they change that requires us to then change our zoning code. We'll probably do that in the fall as well. But for the next couple months, for June, July, August, maybe even as far as September, we don't have anything on the horizon. So take a well-deserved break. I'm going to ask if there's consensus on ADUs. Oh. I was waiting for that. What was that? If there is consensus from the commission, we can start a study process internally on ADUs and how the ADU code treats RVs in rural zones. I'm not sure if we need to take a formal vote on that. We can't vote. We didn't know. We can't vote because it wasn't advertised. But if that is the direction from the commission, we will get started on that. I can't give you a definite date on when we'd have something for a study session, but I don't imagine it's going to be in the next couple months. I would like that. Okay. Any other questions, comments from the commission? Just a general question on the train crossing over south of and north of the new development area. What was that coming in? El Toro. Yeah, El Toro. Any minute now. Famous last words from Israel. I noticed they did a sidewalk curb edging. Is there any anticipation that the traffic on that will be heavy going east to El Toro in order to going toward Rayqu ion? I'm just curious if the single lane traffic, you know, if widening of that road ends up happening that they've already edged at. Which road is that? Just that new intersection with the train crossing. It's so unpredictable at which traffic patterns will happen given that, you know, there is a right of way through the north, you know, going toward the marketplace, right? A lot of people will go to the market. A lot of people will go, you know, to get to the highway sooner. They may go directly north or go, you know, on La Cañada and some may go. So, I think that's going to be a high traffic area with that new development. I'm just curious how. And I know this is probably not, you know, it's more of a road area, you know, how that will change over time. So, I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on that. Chairman Ferguson, Vice Chairman Millett, I do not. That is a great question for the Public Works Department. But to answer your question on a date for the crossing, as of two weeks ago, and as you know, it's a moving target, May 11th was supposed to be the opening date. But, you know, you know how that goes. I think it will change. The traffic pattern has got to change. It could. And there's also a project in the RTA next that would extend La Vita south to Nogales Highway, which would change traffic patterns again. Right. Thank you. Anything else from the commission? Then I will adjourn the meeting at, let's see, 7. 7. 12. My watch is in military time. 9. 720 hours. Thank you.