Thousand Oaks, California

Which is public outreach. Transparency agenda using this item. And, you know, broadcasting it to whomever cares to tune in and create a public forum for people to come and talk with us about this, all for the sake of getting it more attention. But I mean, in the report, I mean, Mr. Mashiko did say that the staff plans to contact Redwood Middle School to advise school representatives of the of of this proposal, but we can see from our supplemental package, I mean, that's already been done. And the principal is in favor. So I think she was in favor of the of the sign. But I guess what I'm saying is, is that this report is already been produced after the fact. So what I'm saying is that before the the report is created, could there have been a little bit more diligence as far as getting public input from the parents that are going to be affected, their kids that are going to be affected? So that we have they have a better understanding of what to what to present to us. That's all I'm saying. I understand that, and that's a fair point. Any of the other commissioners have comments on this item? Doesn't look like we do. So this was just an information item. There's no vote that needs to be taken on this item or no, no formal action for us to take. So we've yes, we we have vice chair, some with a late breaking question. I'm so sorry. It just just popped into my head. Do do we have a city policy? And apologies for not knowing this, but does the city policy on Restriping for bike lanes require us to follow the California MUTD? Or can we do our own configuration? Well, generally, yeah, I think we we are, as a city required to follow the guidance because it's a state standard. All cities in California have to follow. What's the guidance provided in the California MUTCD. So unless we have a different standard in our our road standards, which we don't at this time, because, you know, I think what we're trying to what we're trying to do is just be consistent with the state and what other agencies are going to be putting in in these similar type of roadway configurations. So that way, cyclists, when they venture in other agencies as well as in Thousand Oaks, it's very predictable. They can encounter the same condition here as they encounter somewhere else in California. Okay. That makes sense. And when we do the city bicycle ordinance update, does that have any bearing on design features? I don't believe so, but and I'm not sure if that's something that we can discuss at this moment since it's not on the agenda. Understood. Okay. One, one, one other just thing that occurred to me as I was, as I was listening to you ask your question was, you know, as a lawyer, I think that that there's an army of lawyers out there in the world that look for cities to deviate from state mandated regulations and guidance on certain traffic related issues. And if, if, God forbid, something happens at this intersection that's not in compliance with a state mandated guideline, then you know that there could be exposure. I'm not saying that there will be, but I think it's always a safe bet to follow the state recommended guidelines. So I think we're ready to move on from six a move on to six B. And I think we have Mr. Ackert, who's going to deliver this engineer's report for us. Thank you chair, I'm Bradley Eckert, and tonight I'm happy to provide you with some information regarding the traffic signal preparation for public safety power shut offs. The public safety power shutoff is when Southern California Edison temporarily turns off the power to a specific area to reduce the risk of fires caused by their infrastructure. Not only is this a major inconvenience for the residents in that area, but it also affects the city's 136 traffic signals. All the city's traffic signals have a battery backup installed that will keep the intersection running for 6 to 12 hours without power. That raises the question how are we prepared if the power outage exceeds 12 hours? Well, if the traffic signal goes dark, the California Vehicle Code establishes that the intersection be treated as a stop sign, with all drivers coming to a complete stop and proceeding when it is safe to do so. Our first level of defense is these Retroreflective backplates. The fluorescent yellow tape is highly reflective and will help drivers identify intersections as they approach, especially at night. Here is another example. Closer up, this tape is installed at 111 intersections, and we're scheduled to finish the remaining 25 by next spring. The next line of defense in an extended power outage is to have a supply of 36 generators ready to keep the traffic signals running in normal operations. Before we started ordering a bunch of generators, we needed to have a game plan in place specifically where to house them. These next few slides are going to be progress pictures until we have the final product. These two tuff sheds were installed at the municipal service center across from our traffic signal maintenance shed. Here is a view from inside one of the sheds. These sheds not only house the generators, but each generator needs a locking cage, chain and plug to connect to the signal cabinet. Here's a picture inside the shed. After we assembled and installed the shelving, you can see the cages stacked and organized on the shelves as well. One thing I want to mention is that these cages were custom made and fabricated by our crew in the welding shop. I've also been working with our municipal service staff to run the generators periodically to break them in and give them a few hours of runtime before an emergency event hits. This is the final product of the two sheds. We have two solar powered ventilation fans installed to help dissipate the gasoline smell and keep the insides of the inside of the sheds as cool as possible. We have 36 generators, cages, and plugs ready to be deployed during a PSPs event. In the event where an outage is longer than 36 hours and all the generators have been deployed, we have 60 temporary stop signs ready to be implemented at lower volume locations if needed. And then one last thing in our preparation is the indicator lights on top of the traffic signal cabinets. These lights are wired to the battery backup system and turn on when the power is shut off to the intersection. This indicator light will tell us if the power is shut off without even having to open the cabinet. This is especially helpful during a PSPs event, when we need to be as efficient as possible with our time. The indicator light is also beneficial in day to day operations. SCE has power outages every day for routine maintenance, and sometimes these outages go unreported. The indicator light helps us stay on top of all these outages and even swap out the batteries. If we notice the indicator light has been on all day. These lights are scheduled to be installed on all the traffic signal cabinets by the end of this month. Now that we've gone through it, I just want to provide you with a brief overview of all the PSPs preparation preparations. We have made all 136 city traffic signals are equipped with a battery backup system. The battery backup system keeps the signal running for up to 12 hours after power has been shut off. We have installed Retroreflective tape on the back plates of the signal heads, which is going to be most beneficial at night when the signal is completely dark. We have 36 generators, cages, locks and plugs ready to be deployed at a moment's notice. And if the power outage is long term and affects more than 36 intersections, we have 60 temporary stop signs mounted on barricades that are ready to be deployed. And finally, we're installing indicator lights on top of the traffic signal cabinets to help notify us when the power is off. Thank you very much. Are there any questions on our PSPs preparations? Thank you, Mr. Eckert. Good job on the report, Miss Vasquez. We don't have any speakers on this item. Right. No speakers chair. Okay, so then I'll open this up for questioning by the commission. Do any of the commissioners have questions? Vice Chair Selm, go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Eckert. I, I think this is so important, you know, based on what happened. When was that? January before last. So we all know what can happen here. And just thank you for thinking about this and being so forward looking. Just a couple questions. I think one is like a policing question, which is what happens in this scenario when it comes to police resources and where they're allocated. And I mean, does the like backup generators prioritize like where you're putting police at which intersections or. Yeah, can anyone speak to that piece? Well, regarding when it comes to going to intersections that are inoperative, we usually get information either from our dispatch, usually from people calling in saying that the intersections out or from the city themselves. If if we find it first and we notify the city that the intersection is out, law enforcement doesn't personally go out there and direct traffic because once we do, we're stuck there until the lights are operative again. So with, you know, the resources that are out there, plus, with all the calls for service, we can't spend a lot of time out there just directing traffic. So. What we'll do is we'll have some of our traffic officers go out there and just enforce violations that are out there. If people are running through the inoperative signal, lights will enforce it. Usually people will see that we're enforcing it, and then they actually go to the intersection and actually treat it as they should come to a complete stop. Make sure like, like it would be a four way stop sign, make sure that there have right of way once they stop, and then they can go through the intersection. The issue we have that we've seen with the city bringing stop signs out, it's a good visual. The only issue is, is when those signal lights become operative again, you still have stop signs out and then the signal lights are working and then people don't know how to treat it. They go through it on a green light, even though the stop signs are there and other cars are stopping, and then we have possible accidents. That's the only issue. Yeah. So I can add a little more to that as well, if I could. That's why the stop signs are kind of like a secondary measure. And we've expanded that. A couple of years ago we only had like, you know, 6 or 10 generators. Now we have the, you know, 30 some odd, which basically should cover us, you know, for almost 99% of situations that we can rely on the generators to keep the intersection operating completely. Normally that alleviates any need for, you know, traffic officers to have to even be out there because the signal is operating normally. And then we would need to use the stop sign. So that's, that's really helpful and good flag on the danger there. That does seem really tricky. I actually have something else I want to add on that. So after we, after we came up with this procedure and we made these changes, we changed the city blackout policy. If this if the signals are dark, what happens? And before we put out any stop signs, we make sure that either the police or the city inspector turns the signal on to flash in the cabinet. So if a power does come back on, the signal will be running in flash, which will be effectively the same thing as a stop sign. We won't have those conflicting signals or. Yeah that's great. Thank you for sharing that. Just a one last note. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this. I hear from you later that like it's, you know, we're at the point where we have the generators that we need. If there's a future purchase of generators, I would highly encourage electric ones. I know that the technology is getting better. And Clean Power Alliance does have an Energized Communities program that can help cities fund things like that. So I heard you mentioned like the smell of gas and this, you know, it's also potentially dangerous for fire reasons, right? To have a, to have a generator like that. So just a thought in the future that could help the city, like build more resilience and get some grant matching funds. Yeah, we've taken advantage of some of those programs to retrofit quite a bit of our landscape equipment. A lot of our leaf blowers and other landscape equipment has been converted to electric now. And so definitely we'll keep an eye on that. Thank you for sharing that. Any further questions for staff? I just have one quick question, Commissioner Guerra. Sure. Go ahead. So I see that they're all all of the generators. You know, it's fascinating to me everything that you have to kind of think about when your power gets shut off. I mean, it's, it's been an education being on this commission. So thank you to Public Works for keeping us safe. But one thing, because of the Palisades Fire and the Eaton Fire, I'm just wondering, how do you make sure that those sheds are safe from fire or potential risk for fire? I mean, are they graded or, you know, do you? Yeah, this I guess I can help address that the, you know, those sheds along with all, all of our. Facilities at the municipal service center, we are, you know, closely managed and monitored. And we usually have staff at those facilities. So yeah, so there's staff 24 over seven at the at the sheds. No, we don't have a staff at the sheds, 24 over seven. But no, I'm just wondering because of I mean, it's not I mean, we laugh, but because of what has happened with the Palisades fire and with the Eaton Fire, I just was curious, how do we if this is where we're going to be storing all of our generators, how do we make sure that they're not going to be that they're going to be safe as well? And that's why that goes back to some of what Bradley was showing, the generators being in the sheds, being newly constructed. They're having the vent fans and, you know, built to the latest standards to help withstand any, you know, minimize any fire risk. And they're at the MSC, the Municipal service center with all of our other equipment. So if if the sheds are done, then probably all of our equipment might be on fire too. Any further questions for staff? I guess I just have one, which is. So in the report, it says that the city has 136 traffic signals, but of course we don't have 136 generators in the event that the battery backup gets depleted. But I think I saw something in the report that said in, in a real serious situation, the priority goes to energizing those signals that are to be used for evacuation routes. Is that right? Yeah. That's correct. So not only would we put them at the busiest streets historically to date, the outages have only the the most signals that they've affected were 58. So we we'd be pretty much covered on all the busy intersections. And then we'd be able to put stop signs at the other locations if needed, if it was dark. Okay. I mean, I read that, so I thought that that was. But the other thing that we would be able to implement is. So these batteries are charging in the cabinet, right? So if you hook up a generator to the cabinet and you're running it, normal operations, those batteries are charging. So we not only would do these generators run the signals, they're charging batteries that we can swap at other signals to keep them either in flash. So at least there's something flashing or in normal operations. Got it. Okay. Thank you very much for that. Quick question for Bradley. If yes, yes, Commissioner Weichel. So the battery backup system could last up to 15 hours or approximately. What's the. So it depends on how many signal heads that it's powering. But on average it'll run in normal operations for six hours. And then after that it'll go to flash for another six hours, up to 12. Got it, got it. And then. In terms of staffing, I mean, if there was a catastrophic event, city staff are responsible for maintaining these generators. Yeah, it would be our traffic signal maintenance contractor, their technicians, myself and then any other city staff that we have on call that would be able to help. But it's the one thing I want to mention. It's time consuming. If we're let's say we have a generator at an intersection, we have charged batteries. These are heavy car batteries. It takes at least a half hour just to load them into the truck to go to the next location. So that was my point to the PSPs lights. It's so important to have those lights so we don't have to even get out of the car. We can drive by. That light wasn't on an hour ago and now it's on. We know we have some time. We got 6 to 8, 6 to 8 to ten hours there. Where would a plan moving forward be put into place? Would it be an active ATP insertion? Because it seems like there is no plan for staff in a fire in a public safety event, mass blackout. There's no window of time set. Right. So you would be committed. Do we have a plan in place for that? We have a procedure in place to where, if I like, depending on which circuit is out, we can prioritize which ones will get the generators, which intersection will get the generators based on lane number of lanes, average daily traffic, school zones, collisions in the last two years. And we've created a procedure that we're the higher the busier intersections are going to get the generators, essentially. But it all depends to your question. It all depends on the circuit. It might be a circuit that affects five signals, but it could be two circuits that affect 15. So not only are you good at your jobs, but you're going to be heroes in a power safety. Shut up. Thank you. All right. So if there are no further questions for staff, then we can close this item to public comments and open it up for discussion amongst ourselves if we feel that's necessary to to Commissioner Winkle's point, I do feel I do sleep better knowing, you know, that this stuff is in place that much smarter people than me are responsible for putting it into action when it needs to be put into action, and just thankful for that. Any other comments? Doesn't look like it. Vice chair. Some this sample C circuits. This isn't like all the circuits and all of the lights, right? It's just. That's just an example of two examples of the circuits to show you what it looks like and that it varies. Okay, okay. Thank you. They're not there's not ten per circuit. It varies. Every circuit's different. Some are way bigger than others. Final comment. You mentioned that what you have now is good for the city. Would would there be any improvements? If budget was no option, would you go more electric? Is there anything else? I mean, it seems like we are covered for at least the short to mid-term. As far as going more electric, I don't. If you're out of power for 48 hours or more, what are we where are we going to get more electric electricity from? That's the big. So right now the technology is not there. So we're we're going with gas so we can make sure that these are going to run. Thank you. Isn't it. Well I mean you could get you could get power from the sun. I mean is it possible to to get hybrid systems in place? So as far as running a solar panel at the traffic, at the signal at the intersection, you would need so many panels, you probably have to cover the whole intersection just to run it. So they're not they're not efficient enough yet. What if the place where the batteries are housed is a battery energy storage solar system? So that's charging the the generators. That's one option. And you're touching on a future project that we're working on. But right now we don't have electricity to the traffic shed, the traffic maintenance shed or the SPS shed. Right, right. So and, and just to point on like the, okay, in an emergency situation, where are we going to get the power? Like I had to flee during the Thomas fire and I couldn't put gas in my car because all the gas stations were out of power. So like, you know, you can't necessarily get diesel and gas because of that. No, you're right, but we do well. We have generators and we have our own gas station at the yard. So if we had generators, we, we could, we could have our own gas. Okay. So we'll close this item now to public comment. This was this was only an information item. So there's nothing for the commission to do in terms of taking a vote on any action at all. So moving on to number seven status report of prior Traffic Commission recommendations. The staff have anything for us on that item. Yeah. Just real quick. It's an item that the Commission heard at the last meeting regarding the Preferential permit parking program ordinance update. We're hoping to get that on the council agenda. I believe it was this month. However, there's there's been some conflicts, so we had to move that off until September. But we're looking forward to taking that to council. And that concludes that. Comments. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Michiko. Commission referrals. There were none. Item number nine is our work program and commission schedule. We are dark in August. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Correct. All committees and commissions and boards are dark in August. And we don't anticipate a meeting in July. At least not not at this moment. Okay. So the soonest we could be back is September. That's correct. We do anticipate having a 1 or 2 items for review in September. Okay. So. Moving on to item number ten, traffic commission comments and discussion. Are there any general comments or discussion from the commissioners? Commissioner Weichel very happy to hear about that parking permit situation being brought to council, having some of the people visit, it sounds like something that needs to be fixed. So that's amazing that it's moving forward. Commissioner Guerra, how I was so curious, because that was one of the first times since I've been here, and it's only been a year where we had so much public participation. It really touched me and I felt so, you know, how can I say I really felt good that evening that we really did something good. Not that we don't, but that that was such a wonderful moment to see how the city could really put something in action that would really change lives. So I'm just wondering, how did you find out? Did the public come in and complain, or how did that come about? Yeah, it's sort of was years of, I guess, learning, you know, what's how you know, how that program works out there, what works, what doesn't work, what are the issues, how, you know, trying to develop ways that we can fix it. And as the years went on, you know, technology is developed. So now things are sort of digital. And now we have these readers where, you know, they can just scan a license plate nowadays and, you know, that can tell you whether or not there's a permit is valid or not. So now with technology sort of maturing over the years, now we have a new tool to, you know, look into, to implement and see if that might help correct the situation out there. And, you know, for that item, we did notify every property that was out there. We did a large mailing, I think 540 properties were notified that this item was going to traffic commission. So that might explain, you know, why the participation and turnout was very strong. Thank you for doing that. It actually it really worked to get that community mobilized to come in here. Very impressive. All right, moving on to item number 11, future meetings. We just covered that briefly. So I think we'll we'll likely be back here on September 23rd of this year. And I don't think there's any further business. So with that, we'll adjourn this meeting and wishing everybody a good night.

All right. I will now call this meeting to order. Will the city clerk please call role? >> Council member Adam >> here. >> Council member Newman >> Council member Gutierrez >> here. >> Mayor Prom Angler >> And Mayor Taylor >> here. >> Next is close session. Uh do we have anything to report on tonight's close session? >> Uh yes, there are two items to be discussed in close session. They are both listed in the agenda this evening. Uh, one is a performance evaluation for the city attorney and the other is a performance evaluation for the city manager. >> Okay. Thank you. We have no clo Oh, excuse me. We have no speakers on this item. So, we are going to go into close session now and we will be back here at 6:00. All right, welcome everyone. Excuse me. Can we please have your attention? We are going to get started. We are I'm going to ask you to take your seat if you can. We're going to get started on our council meeting now. We are back from our closed session. Mr. Dorne, is there anything to report? >> There were two items discussed in close session and there's no reportable action at this time. That concludes my report. >> Thank you, sir. Um, all right. We're going to do this a little bit different than our normal meetings. If this is your first time here, this is a little bit busier than our normal meetings. Believe it or not, there's usually only 20 people or so on a big night. So, just to let you guys know what this is going to look like to set the expectations, we are going to have public comments. Public comments are not for the downtown project. That's going to come after. So, that's just a reminder. We are then going to have a staff report. After staff report, there's going to be the applicant. In this case, is the city that's going to bring this project forward. There will be public comments after that. And us as council will be asking questions. There'll be a moment for us to talk amongst one another and then we'll ultimately make a vote. Here's what I'm going to ask for everyone. This is not the World Cup. This is a council meeting and I know that you know a lot of us have opinions on you know this project and so what I'm going to ask is please refrain from clapping or applauding. The only reason I'm going to ask that is two reasons. Number one, we have a lot of speakers tonight and I want to be mindful that it's intimidating to speak in general and when you're hearing an applaud or a boo that can be kind of frightening. I want everybody to feel comfortable sharing their opinions. And number two, because there are so many speakers, it's going to take a little bit of time. And the last thing I want is somebody who's registered to speak and feels like it's going to take too long. I don't want them to leave. So, what I'm going to ask, uh, being the mayor, I want to run this meeting well. You're going to have a time slot to speak. I won't drill you as you get down to your allocated time. What I would ask is when you hear the beep, just start, you know, wrapping it up and I'll be loose there. What I would ask back is try to refrain from the applause or the booze. Please hold back on the booze. And then, uh, also, if you have signs, just be mindful that if you put the sign up, you might be blocking somebody's view. So, just be mindful of the people around you. And the last reminder for, you know, myself included in this, these are our neighbors. These are the people that we're doing life with. So, uh, I want to hear everyone's opinions. Everyone up here wants to hear it. That's going to help us make a better decision at the end. And with that, I am going to ask that everybody stand if they can so we can do the pledge of allegiance. >> Right hand over your heart. Ready? Begin. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. And I should have said this at the beginning. I hope all the dads in here had a great Father's Day on Sunday. and hopefully you're able to enjoy with your kids, maybe some grandkids, and in a couple weeks we've got a big birthday to celebrate. So, I hope you all have a great Fourth of July as well. Next is going to be our public comments. Will the city clerk please announce public comments? This is the time and place for public comments. Speakers are requested to state their name and community of residents for the record. Nine individuals have requested to speak and pursuant to council standards, speakers are allowed three minutes. The yellow light displays when you have one minute remaining. >> Thank you. And not to sound like a broken clock or what's it with the record? Well, what's it again? Broken record. That's what I'm looking for. I'm going to remind everybody that if you want to speak on the downtown project to give your testimony about the project only during the the hearing item, but for right now, we have eight speakers for public comments. So, I'm going to call the first in person and then if we have any Zoom, which I don't believe we do, we'll call Zoom at the end. I'm going to start with Jim Friedel. Please come join us. Thank you, uh, Mayor Taylor and members of the council. I'm actually here on something that probably nobody else knows about, but I'm really excited about it. Um, city and CRPD have had more than a half a century of working together to best serve our community. So, we've created the Civic Center Authority together. Costa, our 15,000 acres and 150 mi of trails together. The Alex Fury Thousand Oaks Teen Center, we do that together. The Global Adult Community Center, we do that together. Hillrest Center for the Arts, we do that together along with so many other projects and programs, too numerous to name. That enduring partnership that we have continues with the pending sale of Fireworks Hill and 401 403 Hillrest. This is going to enable CRPD to have its forever home. We've been tenants leasing where we've been. We're going to be able to expand our public recreational programming and reservable space in an amazing location with great views while conserving our shared history in the property. So, I was in downtown LA signing all the documents to uh close escrow scheduled for June 30th. And thanks to our cooperative efforts, our shared community um CRPD will not only have 61 acres of additional public parkland at Fireworks Hill, but the city is going to have the ability to add significant amenities to this location, the public park and plaza here in downtown. So, in in closing, speaking of our partnerships, I want to remind everyone it's July 4th. Our 250th is coming up. And as tradition has it, pancake breakfast, home run derby, free swim at Clu Pool and and Teio uh Teo High School, and Concert in the Park with US Symphony. We're spending a bit more money on on all of these things than we have in the past, including, of course, what we do together, our fireworks from CRPD's new Forever Home Fireworks Hill. So, thank you for our partnerships. >> Thank you, Jim. We um [applause] >> we appreciate you guys greatly. Next up, we have Henry. Greetings, council. Did you know that this year America will set yet another world record? Every year, America sets a world record for having the longest standing constitution of any other nation on the planet. The average lifespan for a constitution is 17 years. America's constitution has lasted 14 times longer than all other nations. The French Revolution was based on freedom without God compared to the American Revolutionary War, which was based on freedom with God. And in France, freedom without God led to chaos and the guillotine. In the past two centuries, France has had 14 constitutions while America has maintained just one. The reason our Constitution has outlasted all others are the biblical principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence. Since we are celebrating our 250th year, I request that we place our national motto in God we trust in our public square. Public square. Thank you. All right. Next up, we have [applause] It's okay. It's okay. Uh, next up we have uh, excuse me, Zen Zenwin. I hope I said that right. No. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What's that? That's That's Ren. And he's on Zoom. Huh? Geez Louise. >> All right. Here we are. I'm off to a great start tonight. We are gonna go with Jack. Come [snorts] on down, Jack. That's too good. [laughter] Zen, hang in there, buddy. We'll get to you. Good evening, council. As we're 11 days away from our nation's super centennial, it is important to also focus locally by noting that our state of California's state constitution says, "We the people of the state of California, grateful to almighty God for our freedom in order to secure its blessings, do establish this constitution." New York, Florida, Michigan, and many others also say that they are grateful to Almighty God. And Massachusetts sounds like it's ready for a revival, stating it is the right as well as the duty of all men in society publicly to worship the supreme being, the great creator and preserver of the universe. God or the divine is mentioned at least once in all 50 state constitutions and 200 times overall. Everyone who lives in a state has a state constitution that acknowledges God as God the divine supreme being supreme ruler of the universe or they express gratitude for divine guidance. I'm going to break this down for you. In state constitutions, there are 116 mentions of God, 14 mentions of supreme or sovereign being, 46 mentions of almighty, 32 mentions of Lord, and seven mentions of Christian. Now, it's clear that faith is woven right into the fabric of our history and tradition. We cannot deny or escape these facts. Let us all remember this when we celebrate our nation's super centennial. My prayer is that we will rightly proclaim and display our nation's national motto in God we trust here at our city hall. Thank you and God bless you all. Thank you. [applause] You know what I'll ask if everyone's okay with it. Let's wait till every Oh, you're good. Sorry. Great work. Uh once the last speaker speaks on public comments, let's do a big round of applause after that. Sound S sound good? Next up is gonna be Karen Tavoci. Tvocally. Geez, my pronunciations. Forgive me, Karen. >> No, you're fine. Take your time. I should have given a heads up. Sorry. Uh, good evening, mayor and city council members. My name is Karan Tavakoli. I'm here tonight to respectfully ask the council consider to consider adopting in God we trust as part of the city's motto. [snorts] In God we trust is the official motto of the United States and has been a part of our nation's history and heritage for many decades. For many Americans, these words represent [snorts] values such as faith, hope, gratitude, humility, and the recognition that there are principles greater than ourselves. I understand that our community is diverse and includes people of many different religious beliefs, as well as those who do not practice a religion. My request is not intended to favor one faith over another, but rather to recognize a phrase that has long been associative with our nation's history and civic tradition. In adding God we trust to the city's motto would acknowledge an important part of American heritage while encouraging reflection on the values that help strengthen families, communities, and public service. Whether people interpret these words through a religious lens or as a reminder of the importance of humility and moral responsibility, I believe that they can serve as a positive message to our community. I respectfully ask the council to consider this proposal and be open to the discussion whether engrust should be incorporated into the city's motive. Thank you for your service and for your time. >> Thank you sir. Next next up will be Patricia. Do we have a Patricia? She's coming from overflow. Okay, give her one sec. Actually, you know what? While Patricia's coming up, I'm gonna call John and then Patricia can come up after John. Happy birthday, USA. How you guys doing? It's coming. It's week and a half away. Are you guys excited? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right on. All right. Those guys are teaching us so much about our Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. is so inspiring. Thank you guys. Um I have spoken to you guys about this a couple times about putting in God we trust in our public square and in our chambers here. Most countries as they turn away from God, they go down a path and they push away from God. And this is new for me. I'm not a I'm not a I haven't believed in God for all my life. It's it's kind of new. It's It's only like five or 10 years old. But my life has changed so much as I've gotten to know God. And I highly encourage you all to just try reading the Bible and try and prove it wrong. I have a couple friends who tried to do that and they couldn't and they actually became believers. It's mind-blowing. Anyway, it's our national motto. Our founding fathers, they were smart about this. They put it all over the place. Well, actually it was later Eisenhower time frame and all that when it became official. But but God is awesome. And as we push away from God, as most countries do and we go down that path or as those countries do and when they go down that path, they fall. Things go badly for them. They are not as blessed anymore. Um, I would like to bring it up back just get God in the consciousness and just to consider God. Anyway, I love you guys. God bless you. I pray for you and your families, you and the staff. And I I really enjoy spending time with you guys here and learning from you. God bless you and God we trust. >> Thank you. Next up, we have Oh, I'm sorry. Is Patricia here? Oh, there we go. Come on up. Hello council. I'm Patricia. I'm a board member for Harbor House, a nonprofit that services the unhoused and the housed and needy. Um on September 26th of this year, we're having our annual fundraiser. Harbor House is eight years old. I've been a board member for the entire eight years. It does a lot of great things in the community. It It actually has gotten people housed. Even if they can't house them in this city, they've gone and done the work and housed them in neighboring cities. It's really important that all of you up there and anybody out there attend their fundraiser because 92 cent of every dollar goes to help somebody. And this staff, Denise Cortez, leads it. They do not sit behind their desk. They are out there constantly. They know the name of every homeless person, the case managers. They're out there. They find them, they give them the help they need when they find housing. They make sure they have furniture. They make them they give them dignity. And there's stigma behind the people that are homeless or in a house. They will not always look like you think they do. You could see a young woman in the store with her child nicely dressed, cleaned, and they might be sleeping in their car. So, please, I'm asking all of you to attend or do whatever you can. And Hannah's coming up. She's another board member. And it's anybody wants flyers, we have them. So, >> Patricia, you want do you want to put the flyer on the uh monitor so everybody can see it for a sec? >> Here you go. >> Did it come up? >> Okay. >> Awesome. Anything else you want to share? Thank you. No, just please come out because these two, David Newman, Bob Angler, and my adopted daughter, Ty Gutierrez, they always [clears throat] come out. So, please, everybody, I'm inviting everybody to come out. You won't be disappointed. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next up, we have Hannah Finley. as I've been called. My name is Hannah Finley and I'm just a five-year resident of Thousand Oaks. Moved here because my son and his family are here and we're delighted to be here. As soon as we moved here, we looked into organizations that help people who are homeless or food insecure or housing insecure. And one of the first names that came up was Harbor House. Since then, I've become very active as a volunteer, but also as a board member. So, I'm here to raise consciousness about this wonderful organization. It's only been around since 2019. There's so much that people can do besides donating money. They can donate time by volunteering. They can also make sandwiches or make hot meals, which is one of my fun things to do um for people who are food insecure regardless of whether they're homeless. And the organization not only helps the homeless, but also prevents homelessness by providing rental assistance and case management. So, Patricia has already shared that flyer, but what I'd like to do is show the event sponsorship, which would give you a reminder of, if you already know about it, um, what Harbor House is doing. And for those of you who don't have the name recognition to recognize what Harbor House is doing in this community is that coming up. >> Yes, that's up. >> Thanks. So, I'd like to read over it. Um, I'm a public school teacher who's retired and I believe you could all read this, but I would like to just highlight it by reading it aloud. This form is actually to encourage people to be sponsors for the event that Patricia already mentioned, but I'm here to use it as a way to give you a synopsis of what Harbor House does. This is Harbor House's mission. Just founded in 2019, Harbor House is dedicated to building a just community where all people are included and seen as worthy. We provide a hand up for those struggling through referrals, case management, and essential resources, including things like deodorant. That's not on the page, but very important. Our goal is to help neighbors find hope, employment, affordable housing, and personal well-being. In terms of community achievements, we sponsor our annual fundraiser called Concert for the KJO. That is a big fundraiser that provides critical safety nets for the people already mentioned. It prevents convict eviction. Wish it prevented convention. Provided over 160,000 in rental assistance to keep 200 plus families in their homes. We fight hunger by serving over 46,000 meals prepared by our dedicated volunteers. We provide guidance. We deliver over 2400 hours of individualized case management. The organization was started by its current executive director, Denise Cortez. Flyers are available outside. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Hannah. >> And next up is Suzanne Duckett. Good evening. Suzanne Ducket, Thousand Oaks. Tonight we're talking about the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, and in my opinion, if the item on the on tonight's agenda is not put on the ballot so that all of us can vote, Then in my opinion, there's a stench in this room of corruption. [applause] All right, last up is Ren Schwin, who's on Zoom. Ran, if you're still there, is he showing on the Zoom? >> I don't see her on Zoom. Oh, >> okay. Should I give it a second? >> [clears throat] >> Okay, we are going to move on. Does city manager have any follow-up questions about public comments? >> Uh, no. Just uh a note of appreciation for our partners over at CRPD. uh after a lot of action by the CRPD board, the city council uh moved that milestone project forward uh for them to uh to purchase that facility and take it to its next chapter. >> Thank you, sir. Uh next is our consent calendar. Does anyone have any questions or would anyone like to pull any of the items? Hearing nothing. Would somebody like to make a motion for consent? Mr. Newman, >> move the consent calendar. >> Mr. Adams, leading with the push, we have a motion. Can we prepare the vote, please? Mr. Newman, can I have your voice vote, >> I. >> And Council Member Adam. >> Yes. >> And that motion passes 5 to zero. >> All right. Next up is our public hearing. Will the city clerk please open the hearing? Hearing advertised as required by law is open to consider agenda item number 10A, downtown Thousand Oaks project CI5540 located at 2110 East Thousand Oaks Boulevard and some or all portions of 1868 9341 1938 and 1 1948 East Thousand Oaks Boulevard. Speakers are requested to state their name and community of residents. 115 people have presented speaker cards. Speakers are allowed one and a half minutes and the yellow light displays when you have 30 seconds remaining. >> Thank you. And presenting the item tonight is planning division manager Kristen Rice. And available for questions is deputy public works director Ted Garber, consultant Seth Marowitz, partner with Best and Kger, consultant Kger, consultant Glenn Lejoy, and director of environmental planning with CSG consultants. Good evening, council and members of the public. The downtown Thousand Oaks project is before you this evening. Uh the request is to adopt a a resolution to certify the final EIR, approve findings of fact, statement of overriding considerations and mitigation monitoring and reporting program and approve a general plan amendment development permit tenative trackmap and protected tree permit. Adopt a resolution to approve a special use permit and introduce an an ordinance approving a specific plan amendment to create a new sub area E for specific plan 11. The request before you this evening is to consider the amendments to the general plan and specific plan number 11 as well as consider entitlement applications which have been filed and are and are shown on this screen. The proposed project was presented at the planning commission hearing on May 18th, 2026. During the hearing, 40 speakers commented on the project, including 25 individuals in favor and 15 in opposition. Comments were made on a number of topics in addition to the ones listed on this slide. These issues were addressed in the staff report and will be discussed in this presentation. The project site is located in specific plan 11, which was adopted in September of 1989. Most of the site was acquired by the Thousand Oaks Redevelopment Agency in 1990 with the intent of redeveloping the site consistent with the specific plan. In 1992, the council approved a development permit to allow the construction of a civic arts plaza to include a municipal civic center, a civic auditorium, a council forum theater, a park, and a parking structure. The primary goal of SP11 has been to develop a distinctive high-quality downtown that serves as a centerpiece for Thousand Oaks in the KJO Valley. In 2017, city council set a priority to begin development of downtown Thousand Oaks. As a result, the council adopted the downtown core master plan in 2018, which established a 38 acre planning area along Thousand Oaks Boulevard. It included key actions focused on creating an active downtown environment, enhancing the civic arts plaza frontage, expanding arts and cultural programming, promoting a prof pedestrianfriendly park once environment, and supporting a retail and entertainment destination. In addition, the creation of a downtown has been a formally adopted city council priority every year since 2014. In 2019, the city retained AECOM to develop the Civic Arts Plaza campus master plan and envision how the goals of the downtown core master plan could be implemented on the site. In 2023, the city council adopted its multi-year comprehensive general plan update which established specific area guidance for the downtown core. The city also retained RRM design group to develop the next iteration of the conceptual site plan using the concept designed from AECOM in 2020. In December of 2024, city council awarded RM Design and Smith Group a services agreement to complete the entitlement package. In July of 2025, city council approved initiation of the general plan amendment and request for concurrent processing of applications and staff began processing the proposed project. The project site is generally located at 2100 East Thousand Oaks Boulevard and consists of 17.68 acres. The eastern portion of the project site is developed with a civic arts plaza which is occupied by city hall government offices, a police outpost, county clerk offices, the cavali theater performing arts complex, the sher forum theater, and several outdoor terraces. An 85 foot tall six-story parking structure exists on the site located close to the freeway and serves the cap and the theaters. The western portion of the site is largely undeveloped and there is secondary access to the area from Zunigar Ridge Place and Oakwood Drive which currently terminates at a culde-sac. The site slopes northwest across the site with elevations ranging from 814 ft at the northwest corner of the project site up to 890 ft along the southern boundary adjacent to the one-on-one. The project is located entirely within SP11 except for a portion of the project at 1868 East Thousand Oaks Boulevard, which is within SP20. Only a portion of a roadway goes through this property and does not require any amendment to SB20. Project objectives are a required component of the review of an environmental impact report because they establish the fundamental purpose of the project and provide the framework for the environmental analysis. Seven project objectives were identified which are paraphrased on this slide. The project site currently has a general plan land use designation of institutional which is shown in the image on the left in blue. It allows for public facilities, utilities, schools, hospitals and other public and quasi public institutions. There are no requirements for floor area ratio, density requirements, or a height limit for this designation in the general plan. The proposed project requests changing the land use designation of a 5.33 acre portion of the downtown from institutional to mixed use shown here, where on the left, sub area C1 becomes sub area E in the figure on the right. The mixeduse designation allows for residential, hotels, restaurants, entertainment, and service uses. The only reason the general plan amendment is being requested is for the use. If for say a library or a civic related use was proposed at this site which meets the institutional land use designation, it could be proposed in the same location and there's no height limit in the general plan. It would only need to meet the requirements of the existing specific plan. Additionally, text at the bottom of the slide reflects the proposed revision to page 55 of the land use element for the mixeduse designation with the additional language shown in underlined text. The additional height as allowed by SP11 would be for sub area E only. Additionally, as noted in the staff report, one additional clarification would be made to the land use element goal 13.2 two to reflect the correct name of the civic arts plaza specific plan and change the reference of sub area C1 to E. These maps reflect the community's voice during the general plan update process. Through extensive public outreach, community workshops, and interactive mapping exercises, residents identified where change should occur and what that change should look like. The message from the community was to focus new residential homes shown in the gold circles on the left image and mixeduse development along the Highway 101 corridor. This project site is located within that community identified area of change. Only about 8% of the city was identified for change, preserving the character of the remaining 92% of the city. This slide summarizes the affordable housing obligations that apply to the project. The city's inclusionary housing ordinance would require the project to provide affordable units equal to 10% of the base density, which is 16 units. However, because the site is subject to the surplus land act, at least 15% of the total units must be affordable, which then brings the number of affordable units up to 36. This project proposes 240 units, including 39 deedrestricted affordable units at the lowincome level for 55 years. This is more than twice the city's inclusionary housing ordinance requirements and more than the surplus land act requires. By providing 39 low-income units, equivalent to 24% of the base density, the project qualifies for the maximum 50% density bonus permitted by state law. The project represents an important opportunity to help make this help the city make progress towards meeting its regional housing needs allocation obligations, particularly in the lower income housing categories where the need remains significant. As reported to council on March 10th, 2026, building permits have been issued for 687 housing units that count towards the re the city's reena. However, there still is a need of 468 units in the low-income category for which the project is perffording affordable units. While the city has identified and allocated housing across various sites through its housing element, the actual development of those sites is ultimately dependent on individual property owners and market conditions. And designating a site for housing does not guarantee that housing will be built. But by incorporating affordable housing into a mixed-use development, the project advances the city's housing goals, contributes to a more balanced jobs housing relationship, and provides affordable units in one of the most challenging income cities challenging income categories for cities to achieve. The draft DIR and supporting wildfire analysis evaluated the project's potential effects on emergency access and evacuation and concluded that the impacts would be less than significant. Even under conservative worstase assumptions, the project would increase the city's population by less than 1% at full buildout. As a result, the project's contribution to evacuation demand was determined to be negligible and would not substantially affect the city's evacuation capacity. The analysis also concluded that the project would not interfere with emergency response operations, would not impair implementation of any adopted evacuation plan, and would not require evacuation through wildfire prone areas. The project has been thoroughly evaluated and determined to have no significant emergency access or evacuation impacts. This slide highlights how the project improves access to and through the site compared to existing conditions. The project introduces multiple new points of ingress and egress, creating greater connectivity and providing several options for vehicles and pedestrians to enter or leave the site. These additional access points connect directly to the city's multi-lane roadway network and provide convenient access to both Highway 101 and State Route 23. The site has also been designed to meet all applicable fire access requirements. and the Fentura County Fire Protection District concluded that adequate emergency vehicle access would be maintained throughout the development. The result is a site that is more connected, more accessible, and better served by the surrounding transportation network than it is today. Under SB743, transportation impacts are evaluated using vehicle miles traveled, otherwise known as VMT, rather than traffic congestion. Using the city's VMT methodology, the residential and commercial components were analyzed separately. The residential portion performs very well, generating VMT that is 54% below the citywide average, resulting in no significant impact. The commercial component exceeds the citywide average by 17% and is therefore identified as a significant impact under the city's methodology. However, this is a conservative approach because it evaluates the residential and commercial uses independently and does not fully capture the benefits of a mixeduse downtown environment where housing, jobs, restaurants, entertainment, and services are located in close proximity. By bringing these uses together, the project reduces the need for longer vehicle trips and lower lowers overall travel demand within the area. Now, SQA does not utilize does not use traffic congestion or intersection delay to determine an impact. Nevertheless, the transportation study evaluated traffic operations at intersections in the project area and the project vicinity. The analysis found that all studied intersections are expected to continue operating at acceptable levels during both the AM and PM peak periods with the project in place. In terms of roadway capacity, Thousand Oaks Boulevard currently carries approximately 20,000 vehicles per day. The project is expected to add just under 6,000 vehicle daily 6,000 daily vehicle trips, resulting in total volumes that remain well below the roadways estimated capacity of approximately 37,000 vehicles per day. Therefore, the surrounding roadway network has sufficient capacity to accommodate project traffic and traffic operations are expected to remain acceptable with the addition of the project. A parking analysis and management plan was prepared and peer-reviewed. The project proposes 1395 parking spaces at fold buildout which exceeds the 1343 spaces required by the specific plan and also satisfies applicable state density bonus parking law requirements because the project combines residential, commercial, hotel, and entertainment uses with different peak demand periods. It benefits from a shared parking approach at full buildout when there are no performances scheduled. The analysis shows a surplus of 138 spaces on weekdays and more than 300 spaces on weekends. Only in infrequent worstase conditions when all four theaters at full venue are hosting soldout events simultaneously would on-site parking demand exceed the available supply. And for those temporary peak demand scenarios, two city nearby city-owned parking lots and parking management parking lots would be available and would provide sufficient capacity to accommodate demand. An arborist report was prepared to evaluate the project's effects on protected trees within the project's development area. A total of 122 protected trees are located within the project disturbance area and the majority of the site's large mature trees, particularly on the eastern portion of the property will be deserved preserved. The project is expected to remove 45 protected trees. An additional eight trees would be subject to severe encroachments within their protected zones and are conservatively counted as removals for the purposes of impact analysis and mitigation. Even though several of these trees already experienced these encroachments under existing conditions, several of the affected trees are already in poor condition, including seven trees that were rated by the project's arborist as being in decline. And to offset these impacts, the project is required to provide replacement mitigation at a 3 to1 ratio for all 53 trees counted as removals. This map identifies the location of all protected trees within the project area. The trees shown in green will be preserved. The trees shown in red represent proposed removals and the blue areas identify proposed encroachments. The project has prioritized preservation of mature trees. Of the 66 mature protected trees on site, 59 of them will remain. The majority of the removals are concentrated in one area and are necessary to construct the new Oakwood Drive connection to the existing parking structure and are shown in closeup here. This connection is required to meet the city general plan policies and design standards that prioritize access to parking facilities from the rear of buildings and discourage dead-end streets. The project design preserves the vast majority of mature trees while providing enhanced site circulation and substantial replacement planting. The project includes a 142key boutique hotel with guest rooms located on floors 3 through six and lower level levels dedicated to the lobby, meeting rooms, amenities, and hotel operations. The rooftop level is designed as an active public space with a restaurant and terrace rather than an additional enclosed hotel space. The blue line identifies 75 ft high. The hotel is designed primarily below that elevation with only limited architectural elements extending above 75 ft. The hotel is an important component of the mixeduse vision for the downtown project. It supports the Civic Arts Plaza as a regional arts and entertainment destination by providing accommodations for visitors, performers, and guests while also increasing activity and supporting a more vibrant downtown core consistent with the city's long-term planning goals. This slide shows the north and south elevations for building E2. This is the sevenstory mixeduse building that includes 161 residential units above commercial space in the front of the building and structured parking. The yellow line identifies the second floor elevation which highlights the two-story commercial spaces along the front of the building. The blue line indicates 75 ft. The south elevation also demonstrates how the building responds to the site's natural topography. This slide illustrates how building E2 is designed to break down its scale. The building incorporates architectural articulation, including varied building planes, changes in materials, roof line variation, and upper level setbacks. The top floor setbacks, an additional 14 ft, reducing the perceived height, and creating visual interest along the building frontage. The residential units are organized around an interior courtyard, allowing the building to wrap around a central open space rather than creating a continuous block. This courtyard design improves the resident experience while also reducing the visual mass of the structure. Building E2 is thoughtfully designed with setbacks, articulation, and varied architectural elements that create a more human scale mixeduse building. The project site is located within a natural bull-shaped setting. Highway 101 and the existing parking structure screen much of sub area E from the south, while the Civic Arts Plaza screens views from the east. The area already contains some of the city's tallest buildings. The Cavali Theater is 129 ft tall. The parking structure is 85 ft tall and the share forum is 76 feet tall. establishing a longstanding precedent for larger scale development within specific plan 11 and the proposed heights are consistent with that framework. The 2045 general plan establishes no height limit for institutional land uses and SB11 has historically accommodated taller structures in this location and limits building heights based on its relationship to Highway 101 rather than a fixed numerical cap. All proposed buildings comply with that standard. The tallest proposed buildings are located behind the existing parking structure and set back from Highway 101. Their visibility from the freeway is screened while the project's building heights step back down toward Thousand Oaks Boulevard, reducing perceived mass and creating a transition to surrounding development. At the planning commission hearing, questions were raised regarding whether the project would adversely affect utilities, water service, schools, medical, public service capacity. The EIR impacts analyzed impacts related to utilities and service systems and public services and recreation and concluded that impacts would be less than significant. The review included technical studies, agency outreach, and consult consultation with relevant providers. The project site is served by existing utility and public service providers and infrastructures will be maintained and are relocated to support continued operations and public service agencies have been indicated sufficient capacity to serve the project population at planning commission. Questions were also raised regarding whether the proposed general plan amendment is subject to measure E. Measure E, which was adopted by voters in 1996, requires voters approval for certain general plan amendments that increase residential density or commercial land area. Also, measure E does not regulate building height. The ordinance includes several exemptions and this project qualifies for one of those exemptions. The city council declared the subject properties surplus on June 18th, 2024 and July 8th, 2025. Consistent with the surplus land act, the project is exempt from measure E's voter approval requirements and a public vote is not required for the proposed general plan amendment. From a policy perspective, the project is located within one of the city's general plan land use element specific areas, which has its own area specific guidance. This guidance includes goal LU-13 to create a downtown core that is vibrant and a welcoming place that serves the heart of the city with policies including implementing the downtown core master plan, redeveloping portions of SP11, transforming the area into a hub for cultural arts and events, the development of a hotel, improving the pedestrian experience, and providing places for retail and commercial to thrive. Additional policies are listed on this slide. In accordance with SQUA, a comprehensive environmental analysis was prepared for this project and included a project level analysis for improvements within phases 1 through 2B and a programmatic level analysis for improvements associated with phases 2 C and 3. The EIR was released for public review for 45 days beginning on March 5th, 2026 and ending on April 21st, 2026. During this review period, comments were received from 20 members of the public, two organizations, and five public agencies. In reviewing the comments, it was determined that none offered any new evidence or evidence that any fact, analysis, or determination in the draft EIR is incorrect or unsupported. This evaluation determined that the project could have a significant effect on the environment without appropriate mitigation measures in place. The EIR identifies significant and unavoidable impacts associated with the project in the categories of air quality, cumulative impact related to air quality and transportation only and transportation as it relates to employee vehicle miles traveled. for air quality. While the project is consistent with the land use population and growth assumptions from the 2022 study, the project's operational emissions would exceed VCAPCD thresholds and impacts related to temporary construction in phases one and 2A. Implementation of mitigation measures will reduce emissions, but not to a level less than significant. The last unavoidable impact is transportation related to VMT. In order for the council to approve the project, they must adopt a findings of fact and statement of overriding considerations that finds the benefits of the project outweigh its significant and unavoidable environmental impacts. Those include one, contributing toward the city's housing goals and regional housing needs allocation, two contributing to economic development, and three providing open space and recreational amenities in an underserved area. Staff supports the general plan amendment and specific man amendment along with the other requested entitlement applications. It is as it is consistent with city regulations, consistent with the general plan 2045 goals and policies, not detrimental to public health safety or general welfare and has been reviewed in conformance with SQA. Additionally, the project is consistent with the council's top priorities to advance development of the downtown project. Staff's recommendation is to adopt the resolution to certify the final EIR, approve the findings of fact, statement of overriding considerations and mitigation monitoring and reporting program in accordance with SQA and approve the entitlements listed on the screen. Uh also to adopt a resolution to approve a special use permit and introduce the uh ordinance to approve this specific plan amendment. With that, that concludes my pre presentation. I do want to mention though um I think the mayor also mentioned this earlier but on the dis with me uh is Glenn LJOY director of environmental planning with CSG, Seth Marowitz, partner with BBK and Ted Gerber who is our deputy public works director. I also have additional city staff here in the audience and consultants um who will be able to help answer some questions as I may defer some of those questions to them where it is more appropriate for them to answer. So that concludes my presentation. Thank you. >> Thank you. We'll now open it up for questions. Who would like to start us off? Mr. Adams. >> Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I'll try to keep these questions brief. I want to be respectful to all our public commenters tonight. Um, just two quick things. Um, affordability is something that's on everybody's mind these days. You hear a lot about it. Um, especially affordable housing. If I recall in our city poll, uh, affordable housing ranked as one of the top concerns of the public. Um, is it not correct that for one of our typical projects, we would um require a 10% affordable u representation of housing. Correct. >> That's correct. That's correct. >> And if I did my math right, this particular project based on the base units is a 25% affordable. >> It's 24. >> It's what? >> 24. >> 24. Okay. Missed it by a percent. Do you do you recall I mean I've I've been around for a while. Do you recall any other project in the city that had that high of a percentage affordable housing? >> Not ones that were not heavily subsidized by the city such as the city's 100% affordable housing project but >> not from a developer. No. >> All right. So, by any measure, there's a significant portion of affordable housing in this project to give people a foothold in the city if they if they meet the income requirements. >> Yes. >> Okay. There's that. And real quick on the trees, the majority of the trees that are going to be removed or proposed to be removed are in front of the parking garage and they were part of parked planted by the city to screen the garage, were they not? >> Yes, that's correct. >> But so they wouldn't necess I mean they're oak trees, but they wouldn't necessarily be considered legacy oaks like some of the other trees on the property. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. And if I did my math right there, 90% of the legacy trees on the property will be preserved. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. And point being that this project has been built around the trees. In fact, if you would would agree, uh part of the project's um charm is that the trees will be able to be experienced along with the rest of the project, would you say? >> Yes. >> Yeah. They're an integral part of the project and they were strongly considered when all this is being proposed. Thank you very much, >> Mr. Newman. >> Thank you, Mayor, Miss Rice. Uh thank you very much for your report. I have a few questions to start on the density bonus uh part of this uh the affordable units that are here. U the reason that the state gives a density bonus to a developer does it not is is that the community benefit that comes falls out of that is is more affordable units correct? >> Yes, that's part of it. >> And what is the So this is a 50% density bonus, the highest this the state allows. And what is the minimum number of affordable units that uh a project could have in this configuration to qualify for that 50%. >> That's what's being proposed. >> It's 39 units. >> Correct. >> Right. And that 39 units um is not in fact 24% of the whole project >> of the total project. It is less than that. It is 16%. Which is still very substantially above what some other projects in the city do. Um it is substantially below the 100% that the city has at another smaller project. But but it is uh but that 39 represents the minimum number of affordable units to get that to qualify for that extra height. >> Correct. So you do need to have 39 units in order to get the 50% density bonus. >> Okay. And it and it is of the total number of units, not the base number, the total number, it is 16.25%. >> 39 into 240. I mean math >> we calculate the way that the state calculates. >> I'm aware of the way the state calculates. I'm aware of the state's funny math. But if I see a project that has 240 units and only 39 of them are affordable, that's not 24% of the total. That's 16% of the total. >> I have to report it the way that the state in accordance with state law. So it is 24% and it is >> using the state's county methodology. >> Yes. Using the state's >> methodology, not looking at the total number of units. >> Yep. >> All right. Um, very good. Thank you. Um my next set of questions has to do with uh the height limits. Um all of all of my colleagues and I have heard some push back from residents who really don't like seven stories um two and a half years ago. U [applause] I plea please refrain from approving or not approving what anyone says up here. Everyone should be free to speak without feeling like if they don't agree with something that that there's an atmosphere of intimidation. Thank you. part of the um I don't want to say sales pitch because that's too crass a characterization but but part of the appeal of the general plan update when it was adopted two and a half years ago was that it would provide certainty that it would give developers and it would give residents a sense of here are the rules here here is the road map for the next 20 years from now to 2045 here are the rules and and I'll read just a a one sentence from the very first paragraph. This is this is the general plan we adopted two and a half years ago. And the very first paragraph has this sentence. This updated the updated general plan serves as the blueprint quote unquote for the city and directs all decisions related to land use and the city's physical form through the year 2045. Now, I'm not asking if this council has the ability to change that. We do. If we wanted to, we could enact a new rule saying there could be a,000 ft tall building in Newbury Park tomorrow. We have that power. I'm asking rather a different question, which is how do we square the implicit promise we made to residents not two and a half years ago of a 75- ft limit um within some areas with the 92 and 95 foot heights that we are uh contemplating tonight. Well, the thing that we have to remember is this particular site is is unique, right? So, this specific plan number 11 allows for heights that are taller than the mixed use designation. >> The general plan did not state that at at the time this general plan was adopted. Um, I I've looked I've looked very carefully. I was there for the hearings. I was there for years before leading up to that. I didn't see anything that said 92 and 94 feet are okay in this location, but perhaps I missed something. >> Well, so the institutional land use designation doesn't have a height doesn't have a height limit. It does not have a height limit, >> but but it is the case tonight, right? One of the questions before us is an amendment, a new land use designation, >> right, >> that cotifies th these higher heights. Well, so as I mentioned in my presentation, what we're talking about is the use for residential. If the city were to put a library here or another use that's institutional, it could be 10 stories tall. It could be up to 129 ft tall. So what the question really is is the use that is being proposed is the residential. That's the difference. and and it sets specific limits um for that and just in this area and this is an important point because it's going to feed into my next question. the limits that are contemplated here. We've got a 92 story bu uh foot building. I hope not 92 stories. Uh 92 feet 95 ft. And we're saying that's okay with if if we've approved this amendment, but just in this part of the Civic Arts Plaza, not not in a different part, not in a plot next to the >> Yes, that's correct. Only not somewhere else on Thousand Oaks Boulevard, just in this specific sub area of the C. Is that correct? >> That's correct. Only in sub area E. And that leads to my next question which is the perennial precedent question. I know we always say we evaluate every case on its own merits and any decision is not a precedent. But of course we're all concerned about the next developer that comes along and says hey you you approved 95 ft here. Give me I I want that too. How how do we respond to that request when not not if it comes along? >> It's exactly what you just said. You you already stated it that we do rep we review every single project that comes in on the basis of that project and what the merits are of that project. Like I said in my presentation, this project this site is is unique. It's not like any other property in the city. This is the only property in the city that currently contains some of the city's tallest buildings already. You won't find another property in the city that has another building that's 129 ft tall and an 85 foot parking structure. So for this particular project, the way that it is designed fits in with the context of the site that surrounds it today. another developer that comes in the future, if they could find a site like that, they would have to propose something that meets within this the site of that particular location. >> I've got a few more questions. I'll hold them for now, but I'll wrap up for now. I may come back later with the mayor's uh permission. Um my final set of questions is is on three areas uh where where this is going next where this where this project all the different pieces of it to be approved tonight. The next step would be to go to put this out for RFPs to to get some set of developers interested. There are three areas where um personally I would like and I hope some of my colleagues would would would like as well um to be a part of the those the RFPs that come back. I'm not saying they have to be this and only this just to have options on these three areas. Um and they are the following one. Um this is public land all of this today. It's not private. Um, we could sell the land, just have a fee, simple sale, be done with it, just privatize it. We could do a long-term ground lease and keep the land public. And there are many many examples of that around the nation that are larger than this that are very successful. Um, so that's that's one ask is is how do is getting both public and private options in another another area and the staff report actually mentions this is saying there could be a mix of both apartments and condominiums. Condominiums have been very hard to produce statewide for more than 20 years and now now the law is changing so there could be condominiums and then the final area is in the is in the percent of affordability. So my question on all three areas, public land, condominium, uh mix, mix of apartments which we need and condominiums and um also uh sorry the percentage of affordable units for all of those. Where where is the appropriate point in this discussion tonight to guide staff in having that be part of the RFP process? >> Sure. You know, those are policy questions for the council, so that could be included later during your discussions. >> Okay. Very good. I do have a couple of other questions, but I'll hold off for now. Thank you very much, Mayor. >> All right. Uh, Mr. England, you want to go next? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, and thank you for the presentation, Mr. Rice. It's very good to have the information in black and white and color in front of us, so to speak. Um, I'd like to investigate a little more. Um, the way I am kind of approaching this is is are are the our ordinances that are guiding us, how are we complying with that? So, I'd like to go over a little bit more with uh u your your comments on the general plan. How does this uh comport with the general plan? This proposal, >> there are several goals and policies within the general plan uh including the area specific guidance for the downtown. I believe it's 13.2. I could be wrong. um that do guide the specific uh development of this site. >> Okay. And then specific plan 11 which is the performing arts center location. How are we how are we in compliance with that with this particular um plan? Uh, specific plan 11 includes institutional uses for the civic arts plaza and um, but we we're changing we're we're going to be amending specific plan to include mixed use. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And then um, in terms of the parking needs that we mentioned, that's one of the things that the EIR pointed out that we may be a little bit shy on. Um, you mentioned that there's a plan that we would be doing. Can you uh put some flesh on those bones? What type of things would we do to utilize these remote lots? >> So, there's actually going to be a surplus of the parking for most of the time. The only time that there won't be a surplus is when the two existing theaters on site and the two new theaters proposed as part of the full project. If they are completely sold out simultaneously and all of the residents are on site, all of the employees are here in the businesses and all of the guests in the hotel are staying all at the same time, that's the only instance where we will not have enough parking on site, in which case the two off-site city-owned parking lots would be utilized. >> Thank you. And then at at the hazard of um reopening the door on the density bonus, um the density bonus is intended to allow a developer to provide this community benefit by allowing larger um more dense structures. Correct. >> Speak up, Bob. >> I'll try. Is this better? Thank you. Um sorry about that. um is the the density bonus is intended to um allow a developer to create low in or in this case low-inccome units um at at at the at the cost of more density. Is that pretty much the way it works? The additional market rate units that they get help pay for the affordable units >> and the state wishes us to declare that at a 24% uh based on the base units and then the density bonus on top of that. >> There are different levels that can be used depending on uh which income level categories the affordable units are at. In this particular case, the affordable units are proposed at the low income level and the in order to get the 50% density bonus, the 24% of the units are affordable >> according to I recognize my colleagues math is a little bit different, but the state the state has us divide it by 24. >> Yes, the state math. >> Okay. Thank you, M. >> Gutierrez. Thank you, Mayor Taylor. Um, thank you, Miss Rice, uh, again for, um, a very informative presentation. I have, um, or I'd like to I know we have public public comment ahead of us here. Um, but I think we've received I've printed out or Katie was so gracious enough to help me print out the emails that we received. Um, and I'm I'm so grateful for all of the public comment and I wish that the chambers were were this full every meeting. Um, because I think these are important uh community conversations every Tuesday council meeting. And I know that that's a biased opinion, but um I do thank you for all for being here. And ahead of those comments, I think we have a really clear lens in which our community is concerned. Um, and and so I I'd like to, if I may, just parrot back some of those concerns and ask for a really direct and concise um, answer of the approach and the care that staff um, as well as consultants or whomever would like to weigh in has taken um, in hopes that this project would be an additive to our quality of life. So um and and this is all under uh or through my own understanding. So they may be leading but um so the mo the major concerns um you know our namesake the tree removal uh here on campus or at the civics um center here um traffic and parking affordability um losing our suburban small town um moving towards a you know um San Fernando Valley and I apologize to them. We're always talking poorly about them. Um and and and then um again these are just concerns and so I I apologize as um yeah again um that somehow uh our neighbor neighboring developer Caruso has a hand or is a benefactor of this project. um and that there were changes to the plan um since the the plan was posted on our site following our uh council's approval. Um and that would be that was after um community comment and so so after that not um before. Um, so those are the those are the concerns. Before you choose to answer any one in any order, um, and and all of them, I I want to encourage staff um because you all had to walk me through this um is to really highlight some harsh realities. Um, our city has been um and more recently more more rapidly been experiencing um as a part of the undercurrent driving this program, the scales of economy that are part of the program. Um and again these realities that will um that we will face irregardless of the decisioning on the dis today. Um and and the reason why I put it through that lens is because this was a um journey of learning for myself. And I think the the layering of those um realities um and I'd like for you all to to highlight them, but I can I can parrot them out as as part of my own learning. But that's the question is through the lens of these realities our our city is um facing and is currently putting our very beautiful uh quality of life at risk. Um how does this project um try to mitigate and or um address those concerns? Thank you for your comments first off and also thank you to the public for your comments because I also read every single email that came in and answered a lot of phone calls as well. Um, and all the comments and all the questions are valid. Um, I do think that I answered uh quite a few of those comments in the presentation and a lot of your comments I actually think uh would be more appropriate for the assistant city manager to answer. I think your comments may have just led us appropriately into his presentation. >> So, we'll wait on your questions for the applicant. Does that sound good for you? >> Sure. Okay, Mr. Newman, I know you had additional questions. Do you want to go through those? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I can hold off for the applicant on those two as well. There's just two more and e either Let's hold off so we get to the applicant on that. >> Okay. I will plan on doing the same then uh for my questions. Thank you for the presentation. As the applicant comes up and [clears throat] gets ready to present, I'm just going to ask again. Uh I think we're going to have public comments last about 3 hours potentially. So just to be mindful of time and for those that speak that maybe want to get home, they can just to hold your applause and then at the end we'll go we'll go nuts and we'll give it a a big applause. So thank you guys all. Next we have the applicant team that is going to have a 15minute presentation and later a five minute rebuttal and assistant city manager Akbar Alikon can present now and then we'll have we'll have comments after this. time. You ready to start? >> Yes, sir. All right, let's do it. Madam clerk. >> Okay, you ready? All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of the city council. My name is Akar Alikon. I'll do my best to summarize many years of work in the next 15 minutes. This has been a journey. Bear with me. I have 75 slides in 15 minutes, but if there are any questions afterwards, I will answer them. Then I'm going to start with the why. I'm going to start with also how we got here, some of the themes I've heard and conversations I've had with members of the community, and then I'll end it with a theme around we can have both. With regards to the why, and I've shared this slide in many community presentations, there are many beautiful downtowns throughout the county of Ventura. My favorite one being, of course, in the city of Ventura. And what's noticeably gaps in here is of course a downtown Thousand Oaks. And in the absence of that downtown, we've had areas of commerce acting as de facto community gathering spaces. Of course, the annual Christmas tree lighting at the Prominade and uh the Oaks Mall off there to the right. This project, which seeks to create not a downtown in and of itself and the 17 acres that the city controls in orange there, but really the nucleus of a downtown that would become the beginnings of something that could spread east and west along Teal Boulevard. And I think it's important to start at the history. Start at the beginning. Take special attention to the date in the top left corner. We are here 39 years to the day when this original development plan was proposed. That's pretty cool. A downtown materializing in Thousand Oaks is not a new concept. Interestingly, at the heart of this very very program was a 300 room hotel that we'll talk a bit about later. Furthermore, the city council has repeatedly made the creation of a downtown part of its top 10 priorities for a dozen years running. This is from 20145, 2015 16, 201617. Every year the council has adopted priority setting up the next milestone to push this a little bit further a bit at a time. 2017 181 1819 year after year 1920 21223. You get the idea. each one advancing us towards tonight little by little 25 26 to this evening 26 27 and not only just the council priorities that have directed policy there have been several policy documents that spell out the formation of a downtown with specifics like housing mixeduse developments hotels arts and entertainment and just for to show one of these we while we've adopted policy documents and set out plans to evolve the boulevard we have not materially moved the needle on effectu ating many of those changes. In fact, this is a slide from the 2011 TLB specific plan. 15 years ago, many of us probably thought that we'd be sitting here 15 years later with the top photos looking more like the bottom photos. But despite this inactivity, community members didn't get discouraged. Uh they kept asking for it. We held a variety of workshops as we turned 50 years old in 2014 trying to envision what the next 50 years might look like for our community. There are dozens of guiding principles on that list, but what we see consistently had made his way onto the list is the formation of a downtown here. And we followed that up with the 2018 downtown core master plan, an effort to concentrate our focus on something smaller than the entire boulevard with the with this 2018 plan. It laid out exactly the things we hope to see in our future downtown. And we completed this policy framework with the adoption of the general plan in 2023, 53 years after 1970. The downtown project addresses every single one of those land use goals shown on the slide there. And yet all these milestone policies have been fortified by several smaller yet meaningful decisions by this council and previous councils. 16 of them to be exact take inventory of all the city council decisions that have gotten here spanning a decade over several councils and several council members. Most importantly, every decision listed on here has been unanimous. Not a single no vote. I want to touch on number 13 in particular, June 24th, 2025, because it highlights an important detail. Myself and the design team and the entire council, members of the community were in this room on June 24th last year in these very chambers with this exact project. The building envelopes, the placement of all the buildings, the unit count, the affordable unit count, the landscape pallet, pedestrian pathing, all exactly the same that's before you tonight. Again, city council unanimously provided direction to produce an EIR and prepare the project for hearings, which is why we are here. And you can see how this project has evolved year after year through the design team, input from the community, input from staff, included the council. And we have seen this project get prettier, I'll say, before our very eyes. But that's not to say that um we still have more work to do. The each of these milestones have been well documented. Since 2019, the Acorn has covered the project on nearly 20 occasions in addition to the articles in the Ventura County Star. An editorial that I'm particularly proud of is from July of 2025 after we showed the renderings last June. Again, after we showed the renderings in June, it laed the city for its willingness to listen to suggestions and incorporate them during the conceptual phase of this project. And that's evidenced by no better than taking a look at all the different site plans we have seen and the evolution that this project has undergone over a number of years as a result of community feedback. That editorial I just mentioned was in reference to the community conversations we held in early 2025 where we held sessions on arts and entertainment, landscape architecture, visitor experience, sustainability, accessibility, disabled access. But that is just one stanza of this overall effort. In fact, our outreach dates back to previous iterations of this project. These are all renderings from 2020 and all the outreach campaigns that followed suit. We eventually created a virtual reality flythrough experience. We showed up at trail heads, farmers markets. We included this in the the community attitude surveys in both 2023 and 2026. So with that, that was a mouthful. I apologize. I'm going to transition now to some of the themes that I have heard over the past several months in speaking with community members. As you might imagine, I've had many conversations and many of those residents I've spoken to are concerned about crowdedness, overpopulation, and how the introduction of new residents might affect their quality of life. And that concern is understandable, and you might hear some of those tonight. However, some of those very people are surprised to learn that we've actually lost residents. In fact, we've lost about a thousand residents every year for the last decade. We are back to the population we had 25 years ago. more alarming. Not only are we losing people, we're losing them faster than the rest of the county. Thousand Oaks leads the county in population loss. And that's likely because of our affordabilities, affordability issues here in Thousand Oaks that are acutely worse than that of our neighboring cities. And a question I often get because I've had again a lot of these conversations. If population is decreasing, why do I still see traffic on the freeway? Well, the census data shows us exactly what's happening. Thousand Oaks relies heavily on workers working from out heavily on workers from outside the city. And that dependence has grown over time. In fact, in the last 25 years, you see the numbers on the screen here. The net number of people the city imports to support our local economy has nearly quadrupled from 3,300 people to 12 a half thousand people a day. In other words, we need 12 a half thousand people net coming into our city to sustain our local economy, to fill our jobs. That's 25,000 car trips on our freeways every day. More alarming. And again, whether you have kids in our school system or not, this should concern you. This should concern anyone. Many of us moved here, my parents included, because of the stellar reputation our school district has had. It's what supports our home values. It's what makes us a desirable community for employers to relo relocate to, to stay in. Those employers support our local economy, and in turn, that supports all of our quality of life. Much of our school district's funding is tied to enrollment, which is down one-third from its peak of 20 years ago. Maintaining a sk a strong school district is our competitive advantage, and we should safeguard it. Aside from all the data and all the charts, uh I want to share this headline from just last week's Semi Valley Acorn highlighting the state of the county annual report. And this headline says it all. County aging as housing costs push younger residents out. I'm going to move on to emergency evacuation. And I'm going to touch on this in just a second. The the city partners with our peer agencies to actively manage emergencies. The key takeaway here is our agency partners are among the best in the business. And I'm not saying that just to flatter them. U they have shown this time and time again. Evacuations are handled as part of a multi-jurisdictional citywide operation, not limited to a single project. This project in particular, as Miss Rice showed, uh we're actually increasing the ingress egress access points throughout the site. uh the materials on the facade of the buildings, the location of the fire department connections, the location of every tree relative to the building, the species of those trees, the maturity of those trees, and how the canopy affects where it lies relative to the building were all studied. And I I'll thank Mr. Rendis from the Ventur County Fire District for uh giving us a very thorough review of our zone zero requirements throughout the process here regarding water availability. Uh the graphic speaks for itself. Every single family home, the average, this is data unique to Thousand Oaks, uses about two and a half times the typical multif family unit. We have done a great job conserving as a community on the public side. We have removed roughly a a million square feet of turf. Uh this is a building typology that is incredibly efficient in terms of housing people and water use. I'm now going to go to building scale, which is again I think kind of a key theme of tonight's conversation. In addition to the broad community goals, one of the design goals that we had to the design team was to screen the parking garage, the 85 ft concrete parking garage from the boulevard. And context is everything, right? Our predecessors put a 129 foot theater in an 85 parking 85 foot parking garage and probably the only place in the Cano Valley that it made sense to do so up against an 85 ft freeway burm. Similarly, there are very few places it makes sense to put a 92 foot building or 95 foot building. And again, this is one of the few places it makes sense to do so. As Miss Rice pointed out, the use, not the height, the use is what is requiring the general plan amendment and specific plan amendment we are seeking tonight. Let's take a look at what impacts these proposed buildings would have on our viewshed. Here's the view from the 101 freeway existing condition. Here it is after condition. I'm going to go back before after and again I'm not making light of the fact that there's a 90 foot building proposed on the other side of that K rail. It's not meant to be funny. What I'm saying is there is [laughter] there's context here that matters and a 90oot building in this context is actually fitting within the what the site has given us. Let's go to the boulevard. This is the before condition and this is the after condition. You'll notice it stepped down towards the boulevard responding to the sidewalk in the human scale. Let's now go to the lakes drive. Uh similar idea there responding to the human scale before condition and after condition. Miss Rice already covered a lot about oak trees. I'll just touch on them briefly. We have 122 protected trees on the site, most of which that are oaks. Uh the trees that we are proposing to remove are generally the uh juvenile oaks up against the parking garage that were planted in the 1990s. The one data point that I will hang my hat on because I'm very proud of it and the design team is too is that 90% of the mature oaks will be retained and celebrated by the project design. And when I say celebrated, this is what I mean by that celebrated actually putting people to celebrate and be amongst them. There's comments about the hotel viability. We've had two different economists on this project, both at the conceptual and the design stage, and one of them is here tonight. No part of the program is more emblematic of striking a balance than the inclusion of the hotel. Uh we do lack a three and four-star hotels here in Thousand Oaks. Uh the our tourism incub uh tourism district has an occupancy rate of 68% for those hotel rooms. It's what's going to drive business Monday through Thursday, where our theaters are driving those businesses Friday through Sunday. But hotels are more than just hotel rooms. Of course, in many communities, it's where conferencing takes place. It's where your son or daughter has their wedding reception. It's where you might have your signature restaurant in town. It's the place you take visitors from out of town. Even if they're staying in your home, you still might take them there. If we look at then and now, this was the original jungle concept back in 1989. The idea of a hotel anchoring the site is nothing new. It has always been central to this effort. The current design is actually a downscaling from what it was originally proposed 39 years ago. In fact, we have less than half the rooms and about 33% less square footage. I want to share how we arrived to the architectural style you see woven throughout the program. This design team had nearly impossible task of marrying the original brutalism with something else. Um something more forward-looking. They were tasked with introducing a new theme without feeling like a theme park. And I think they've done a good job of that. Uh we gave them four adjectives and these came from our community conversations and that those were sustainable, adaptable, accessible, transparent and that we got some more specific feedback beyond those four words. Things like strong and seamless connections between the indoors and outdoors, durable materials, generous use of glass, timeless architecture, and if it had a connection to Thousand Oaks, all the better. And the design team asked themselves, what style embodies all of those characteristics? And that's how they ended up at this aesthetic of Southern California mid-century design. And again, it's a theme that is woven throughout the program without being overly thematic. And I'm going to close now with this idea that we can have both through correspondence. There's a contention that if a downtown is constructed here that the community as we know it changes. Uh the general plan we just completed was built around this core concept that the vast majority of our community was going to be left unchanged. In fact, the areas of change uh that Miss Rice showed uh and show that are concentrated uh we put our areas of change around the main corridors because those areas were most prime for reinvestment and redevelopment. Speaking of change, I I I know there's been a lot of comments around losing our charm in in Thousand Oaks. I would argue that our charm doesn't really come from our built environment. Um, I would argue that our charm comes from our unbuilt environment. Uh, our charm is our thriving public school system. It's the third places that used to be in business because families frequented them and supported them. It's the charm is derived from places like Canalo Creek Park South on a Saturday morning with a dozen soccer games all happening simultaneously. The the charm is being able to take a hike into open space and leaving from your front door instead of your car door because our access to open space is so amazing. That's the charm. And in fact, when you look at our general plan map, that's what it set out to do is to preserve that charm. There are communities that are a fraction of our size where a single development can affect family neighborhoods. And that's not the case here. If you look closely, you can actually see I know for folks squinting in the audience, it's right near where the 101 and 23 meet. You just head a little bit to the right, you'll see it. We are a city of 35,000 acres. You'll see this proposed site. It is 17 acres on this map. It represents less than onetenth of 1% of our overall acreage. There's two dominant colors on the screen here. I'm going to point them out if you can't see them. One of them is green. Open space protected forever. The other is yellow. Various shades of yellow. Single family neighborhoods also protected as a result of this general plan. And so I I guess what I'm here to share tonight is I don't believe that there is a false it's not a false choice between preserving neighborhoods or a vibrant community space. It's not an or. It can be an and. We can have both. We can have a vibrant downtown and quiet single family neighborhoods. Proponents of this project, many of whom are here tonight, will share their vision of a community that can offer both. where single family neighborhoods and vibrant walkable communities can not only coexist but are both made better because of the other. With that, I'm happy to address any questions from the council. Thank you. >> Thank you. And I'm [applause] I'm going to remind everyone I know he went through that fast and there were a lot of slides, but I'm going to ask again just so we can be mindful of time to we'll wait till the end. We'll go big at the end. All right, Mr. Newman, I know you have some questions. >> [snorts] >> I do. Thank you, mayor, and thank you, Mr. Alakon, very much. Um, and congratulations on speaking faster than a hockey announcer. [laughter] Uh, one of the concerns I've heard from some residents is on the general condition of retail here. Uh, retail's hurting. Um, we're not planning a lot of retail here, but there is some. And I wonder if you could speak to viability of retail at this location. Yeah, I'm going to bring up our retail economist on the project, Rob York. Rob, if you'll step up to the mic here, and I'll I may add a couple points if I have anything to add. >> Thank you, council members. Um, so yeah, this this is a relatively small amount of retail. It's really supposed to be specialty boutique, a mix of locals and then some, you know, signature pieces like a signature restaurant up on the boulevard. Um, and really if you look at the development patterns, this hopefully points towards the future. I know there's a lot of struggling, you know, freestanding buildings and small strip centers. That's really not the wave of the future. this is going to be more of a park once you know really vibrant social environment as well as a commercial environment. So it's it's a very different animal than what primarily exists today. >> So I don't I don't want to direct from the dis I don't think we should be u what specific types of retail or what mix of things there are. Um, but I do I do want to ask is as a steward of the city's well-being, um, is there an economic analysis that shows that whatever is being contemplated would be viable at this site? >> I think it comes down to the the mix and the environment, right? This is a phased project, so there are going to be issues through the development cycle. Sure. But once it's all in place and I think the other piece is, you know, now that after struggling for many years, the Lakes is looking to rem merchandise and eventually have some additional housing behind that. I this starts to create a very vibrant spine along Thousand Oaks Boulevard and it really gives back and activates some space that's totally underutilized right now. So the retail benefits greatly by the program public park, the access to the performance space and obviously the hospitality use. >> I take that's a yes that it would be a vi that the retail at least the uses uh envisioned here um are a viable uh thing going forward. Okay. Thank you. Um coming back to the evacuation routes which Mr. Alakan touched on uh we had here um an evacuation not that long ago in the Woosey fire. Um my family was evacuated in in that um and sat in essentially a parking lot on Westlake Boulevard for a drive that normally takes five minutes took 30 45 minutes to to get up and over Westlake Boulevard. So in a worst case situation here, a Carmageddon if you will, where all the theaters are fully booked up, it's it's an evening, so people are at home as Wy was. Um, I understand public safety, police and fire have have said there is adequate evacuation capacity, but can you speak to that worst case scenario and and provide assurance that that evacuation can be done safely in in emergency situations? >> Yeah. Before I invite up our police chief, Jeremy Paris, um we rely of course on the expert analysis which Miss Rice summarized quite well that this was evaluated during the EI process and uh you know since Walsie 8 years ago um I was one of the families evacuated alongside yourself and of course we all experienced something very similar but what we also saw is additional practice and you see us today versus then and even before then and just our level of sophistication as a city and not only as residents but as professionals. And with that, I'm going to hand it to to Jeremy to take it from there. [snorts] >> Thank you. Yeah, I I'll start off by saying we've never been more prepared to assist the community in fire evacuations than we are today. Um, one thing I'll I'll add is as far as the population numbers, we see that also reflected in our calls for service that have gone down. Since the uh Woolseie fire uh we have added quite a few uh additional safeguards, our professional teams that do evacuation, we've doubled the number of people on those teams. We've added a traffic component uh to that team. We've added some technology. We've added a new radio system that lets us one of the criticisms we had during that fire was our radio system that's been upgraded. I think it was a $15 million project. Um I had the unique abil uh opportunity to work with the fire department for two years and uh in the aviation unit. So I can tell you that they also have increased their capacity technology-wise. They've added the two Firehawk helicopters. Uh and I've also obviously been working with the city. I know now every traffic light in the city has battery backup, something we didn't have before. I think we have 30 or 40 something generators available for traffic lights. Uh we are one of the only agencies I know of that are now pre-eploying uh evacuation teams into areas. Uh Oak Park, not part of the city, but an area of concern for us because of just what you said, how long it can take to get to the freeway. Um we will be sending teams out there before evacuations are even um contemplated so that we have people in place. uh traffic teams will be going out with them. So just I re reiterate again we've never been so prepared as we are now. So again, I'll take this Thank Thank you, Chief, for that answer. And again, I'll take this as a yes. That even in worst case situations, it sounds like you're saying there is adequate evacuation capacity, personnel capability to handle a rapid and safe evacuation even when this area is full and when surrounding areas also need to evacu. >> Yeah, I can't promise you there won't be traffic. There's always going to be traffic and evacuations. That's what's going to happen. But um but yeah, I'm confident that we can safely evacuate people. Yes. >> Very good. Thank you. >> My final set of questions has to do with uh the historical significance of this site on several dimensions. Uh we're sitting right now, right here on what was a Chumash village for thousands of years. The Chumash have been here for at least 13,000 years. Uh this was and still is uh a center thriving center of movie and TV production for 100 plus years. Lots of landmark films are filmed here. We we talk about Jungle Land a lot and that's there is some recognition of that in this in that building today. Uh but but there's nothing in what we're voting on tonight that requires acknowledgement of any of that history. And that's that's something I think we should be celebrating. Um I think it belongs in the public part of this, which we're not voting on tonight. But my question to you on on that is twofold. It's it's Would you agree that that there should be some public acknowledgement of our cultural heritage um in the public component of this? Number one, and number two, is that something that could be conditioned when when we do that public piece down the road? >> Yeah, thank you, Council Member Newman. Um whether something should be celebrated is of course a a policy decision on the part of the council. I won't speak for the council members, but um in terms of can we uh the answer is absolutely yes. And if I may just clarify for the listening audience in the council that while you while you are uh considering a program EIR for the entire site, the only parts of the program that you are being asked to consider tonight for entitlement are just the westside parcel and the park area. You saw a lot of visuals about a a public market and a new terrace overlooking the Cavali or at the base of the Cavi um and the new eastern wing of city hall. That would be a future entitlement. So we refer to that of course as the the public elements of the project um at that time of course would be that would be the appropriate and opportune moment to uh hardwire those into some of the conditions for approval. >> Very good. Thank you. Gutierrez, you want to go back to the original questions? >> Thank you, Mayor. Hi, Akar. Thank you so much. Um, as you were walking through your presentation, I had these moments of like, yeah, and I I'm hoping that community is also having these moments where they feel like staff and um, our applicant today is has pulled through some of those concerns and some of those questions and um, in in a way that addresses them. not in a way to skirt a conversation or to um alleviate pressure, but really to address it. And so um thank you for that because you started with the why and that's what I was alluding to. Um uh you were moving really quickly. Um and and I understand the time constraints there now because we're in this portion you have a little bit more um time and space to take um to maybe walk us through um again those um those realities that we are seeing our city um not experience but trend and quickly pace towards. Um, and I think I think anyone who knows me uh would could easily say that I am a huge fan of community, of um, you know, places of of gathering and um, having a sense of belonging and um, and and and all of the things that we hope this uh, town square that's not so square will bring us. But there are other qualities of life that we experience now. We are also um trying to bolster for future generations um with this project and projects to come. Right? That is the list of goals and priorities that we work towards. Um so if you could um just allude to that. I want to check two things off um really quickly with you if you wouldn't mind. Um there were no changes or were there changes um from the posting um the initial approval from council and the posting on the site to today? >> No, the the project that we shared with the council on June 24th of last year to today is identical. >> Thank you. Um is our neighbor um andor local developer Caruso in any way tied to this project currently? >> No. >> Thank you. Um and then I just want to one of the things I didn't mention but I think is important to um address is topography. Um so just wanting to I think context is something we talked a lot about um and really helped me in my journey of understanding and capacity for this project. >> Sorry I didn't hear the question. just any of the uh driving factors related to our city's um trends that um are prompting outside of the community aspect and the gathering aspect. um the heights of things, the mixed use of things, um the different elements of the program that are um hopeful to address, um affordability, um traffic, so we're not having so many people bring, you know, kind of drive in affordability of housing. just how that those um again realities that face us throughout the county and throughout the state but that we are actively trying to to um address through this program. >> Yeah. Well, I appreciate the invitation. So, I think the data that was shared and I went through it fast. I apologize. If you want to see it again, I can pull it up. But I think the data tells a compelling story, right? It tells a story that I'm sure many of us in this room probably lived. You know, mom and dad moved to Thousand Oaks because it was a desirable place. It was at the time affordable. They sent their kids to quality public schools and that house that they lived in had a probably four and a half occupants and then as time went on um kids got older, they moved out and now that house has mom and dad or in some cases just mom or just dad unfortunately. And so that is an all too common story which when multiplied over thousands of households of course can have an impact on our our population and our school district. And then on top of that uh as as more and more of our population you know heads into retirement of course we then need to rely more on that import of workers that I referenced earlier. Are there any county um uh dependencies um that this data also influences as it relates to our quality of life? So when we're talking about county services, our fire, our police, how does that play a role in affecting the quality of life we experience through those services? Well, the a lot of while the city of Thousand Oaks does provide a lot of core services to our residents, they also enjoy many of the services provided by the the county itself. And so, one one slide I often show at our our our public presentations is the the dollar bill of our property tax, right? And how that's divided up. And most people are surprised to find out that just, you know, 4 cents of every dollar of your of your property tax bill ends up with the city of Thousand Oaks. About a third of it ends up with the Canal Valley Unified School District. Um the other third ends up with the county for all your county services including public health and our county court system and in the jails and whatnot. Uh and then the other tranch is for our Ventur County Fire Department that's 15%. Um and so not only the downtown but really any redevelopment you see within the city is helping to bolster the the revenue stream for those agencies that provide services to to our residents. >> I appreciate that. Um, context is really important to me and so I just I thought I'd again just invite you to elaborate and hopefully it's been helpful for the community to um have additional contacts context. Um the last um context piece I'd love to talk about um or two rather um are around our namesake around um around the oak trees and how our um safety um fire safety zone zero uh requirements and and um uh have has impacted those uh that portion of the program and then again the topography and how it informs how the buildings sit and um just you know we all drive up the hill into the parking lot right and if you stand on Teio Boulevard and you look to your left you're looking down a grade a grade it's a small grade but it's there and upgrade if you look towards Westlake um so I think that also was a little bit it was it was great for me to orient myself in that way when trying to wrap my head around the the size of the pro program. >> Yeah, if Miss Rice, if you can queue up slide um 51 for me on the presentation and if tootv can uh grant that fee, that'd be great. U I went through this very quickly, but everything you see in transparent blue there, of course, is what's existing today on the site. Um, I think it's important to note too that the the height markers that you see for the proposed buildings are the the apex of those respective buildings. In fact, if you were on the seventh floor um of that hotel, the outdoor balcony area, the patio, um, and you were to go straight back and just draw a straight line, not going up or down, you would actually hit the parapit wall. You'd be below the 85 ft mark of that garage. Um the 92 ft of course is referring to just the the tip as you look back towards the north. And so um a lot of applicants uh in fact we get some in the door they'll use a term like average height for a lot of these buildings. It is a maybe a better representation of showing height. Um we went out of our way to be maybe overly transparent to our detriment um to show these that hey this is the maximum height that's shown. Um, but again they're scaled and again the 85 ft mark is without a car parked up there. When you actually park a car up there, the building does read uh a little bit taller. So I thought that was important to point out. >> I'm I was trying to pull a ex a very specific phrase that helped me con contextualize the topography. Um, what is the the from Teio Boulevard up to the parking lot? What is that grade? Like what? >> It's roughly 30 feet to the mouth of the garage. Yeah. >> So, yeah, that helped me. So, these buildings are sitting a top uh 30 feet of topography we have no control of and experience and enjoy uh currently um with without a second thought. Um, so thank you so much, Agbar, for um, uh, for for just joining me on that journey. Thank you, Mayor. >> Yeah. Okay, I've got two really quick questions just to update council and everybody. We are up to about 123 speakers, so I'm going to make this really quick. We'll probably take a quick break just because I don't want to interrupt public comments and then we'll get after it. Uh, first question for the people that are leaving. I know you gave the graph on us losing a thousand residents per year. Is there any data on who's leaving? Is there a demographic? >> Yeah, so the the Center for Economic Research out of CLU, Matt Fina, provides us data every year. He has countywide data. Uh unfortunately, we we have a hard time drilling down to the city itself, but the trends are pretty much aligned with uh other other cities throughout the county. Predominantly, it's people between the ages of 25 and 55 making under $150,000 per year >> under 100k. >> Under 150,000 >> 15. >> And that should that should tell us something in terms of the affordability and what it takes to to stay here. >> Okay. And then I'm going to ask this question. This one's going to be specific to my district because this is a question that I've been getting asked a lot for the height uh height requirement and we saw in the beginning that we had a 4-1 vote from planning commission one dissenting and in that uh commissioner Ferris mentioned that he would be comfortable with it but the 75 ft and requiring a different general plan policy was his main hangup. My question is and that I'm getting why do we need a a different general plan policy and I think you answered that it's just based on the mixed use but the secondary question that I'm getting is does this mean that this is going to move into let's say my district Newbury Park are we going to now start seeing sevenstory buildings pop up around us? What's our what's our security in there? Like what how should we be looking at that part? Yeah, I think Miss Rice answered it quite well. Uh the specific plan that we have for the site SP11, which governs the Civic Arts Plaza, it calls out for additional height only in this area. Um and so I, for example, we've had 129 ft tall building here for almost 35 years. We've managed to hold the line on that elsewhere in the city. Um and that's because we have governing documents that govern where these things can go. Um, Miss Rice, I think, covered it quite well in her comments, and if there's anything to add, I would look to staff. >> I don't have anything to add. >> Okay. So, am I is it fair for me to take this as we don't have to be concerned that this is the beginning of something that spreads throughout the entire city and potentially transforms everything? Is that the fair takeaway? That is of course a a policy a policy decision on the part of the council and uh you have chosen to maintain that bar for many many years. >> Okay. >> Um I'm good with questions for me personally. Uh Mr. Adams, >> real quick, you wanted to go to a break, Mayor? >> Yeah, I'm going to do a break right before just >> real quick before we go to the break. Bring up that map again, would you please, of the city? >> Yeah, if we can. I want that up on the screen if you would please. >> That's right. If you can go to slide 74. >> Okay. Now, point out on that map where we are right now, where the 17 acres that we're talking about today. >> Yeah. So, it's highlighted in highlighter yellow, different from the rest of the yellow. Um, if you go to where the 101 and 23 meet at the center of the screen and then just follow the 101 east about well I'm looking on that TV about 4 in. Uh, >> okay. So, it's the little tiny yellow box. >> Yeah. >> Kind of center right >> along the boulevard. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. And that's 17 acres of a 35,000 acre city. Correct. >> Correct. >> All right. And the general plan that we worked on for four years with tremendous community input that we finally voted on and passed told us the community wanted to see development along this 101 corridor. Correct. >> And the intention was to preserve single family neighborhoods. Correct. >> That's right. Not in neighborhoods, not in the open space. >> Correct. >> All right. I just thought for perspective wise, we might want to take a look at that versus the entire city. Thank you. All right, we're going to do a quick fivem minute break. Restrooms, let's make it fast and then we'll get back and we'll open public comments. >> [music] [music] >> Hey. >> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Gentle. >> Gentle things. All right. >> All right, everybody. >> We're going to start we're going to start getting this show on the road. Everyone, let's start taking our seats, please. All right, >> I got razed a little bit that I said five minute break, but here we are. All right, everyone. We are going to start now with our public speakers. I'm just going to say one more time. I got a recommendation that I might have to bring out my dad voice. I'm trying to avoid that at all cost. But we are going to start. I'm going to call down the first five speakers. Do we still have the five seats available? Awesome. I'm going to call down the next five speakers if everybody wants to come down and and sit down and then after the five, I'll call down the the additional five. I'm just going to try to be mindful that I I want everybody to hurt. I don't want anybody to bail out early. So, we are going to start. The first five speakers are going to be Rick Lemo, Andrew Sco, Gabe Hungerford, Justin Doring, and Benedict Chu. And to remind everybody about the time, it's going to be 90 seconds because we have so many speakers. I'm going to be uh loose on that, but as you see the the red dot hit, just try to wrap it up and land the plane. Thank you. And before my time starts, I just want everybody to know that the Dodgers are one out away from winning 12 to3. Rick Lemo, Newberry Park. Good evening, mayor, council, and staff. Tonight, I simply want to say thank you. Thank you to staff for nearly 25 years of community outreach, recent community outreach that provided opportunities for community members wide uh with a wide variety of residents to give their opinions. And thank you to the 3M company especially for the post-it notes that staff provided us at many of these gettogethers to say which areas were most important to us to focus on. It was really a grand way of involving the community as much as the community wanted to be involved. Thank you to the planning commission for recognizing that now is the time. Thank you to our chamber of commerce and their board of directors who questioned and then decided to offer their support. Most importantly, thank you to Amgen, Los Robas and dozens of Los Robas Hospital and dozens of Thousand Oaks businesses who value their employees enough to implore our city to provide housing, entertainment, and a way to allow their colleagues to spend more time with their family and less time on the freeway. But most importantly, thank you to Mr. Ray Olsen, the man responsible for giving us a place to celebrate the arts, to suggesting that this could be the center of our town. He coined the phrase, "We need a place." Well, now is the time. We need a place. But the good news is the place is right here in this roughly half block of a development. Our city's soon to be center of town. Thank you. >> I'm gonna I should have done this first. Thank you for being the test on it. Just because we have so many people in attendance and there's people in the back. When you're speaking, pull that mic right up to your mouth. Speak into it just so everybody can hear. Next up, we have Andrew Seco. Sorry, Rick, for not letting you know that first. I'm Andrew Seco, 30 years old, lifelong resident of Newberry Park, daily volunteer here for our libraries, theaters, and events. An outspoken advocate for the downtown plan. As far as I see it, this is the city's last chance to codify into law my generation's interest and ability to live here and the next generation's ability to be here at all. So, keep me in mind. Me as in my generation, me as in the people who frequent our beautiful open spaces, our great shops and restaurants, our farmers markets and Shakespeare in the park. Me as in the people that this quarter mile radius project is for. There's still 55 square miles for everything else, for everyone with a different opinion, everyone who wants to keep things exactly the same. But for this 1/4 mile project, keep me in mind. I love the outdoor amphitheater, the blackbox theater, the walkable spaces, the mixeduse buildings, the library outpost, the patios beneath the oak trees. I could go on about the things that I love about the downtown project. We're going to hear a lot of things tonight that people don't love. That's okay. This project isn't for them. It's for the people who grew up here who desperately want to stay, who desperately want to be close to family but can't afford it, and for people who want to visit home and can't afford it. And it's for us and it's for me. You cannot choose whether or not things will change. They will. You cannot choose if you leave a legacy behind. You just get to choose if the next generation, your children, your grandchildren stay or leave. So, as this very long night begins, keep me in mind. Thank you so much. I'd like to give you little drawings I made you all as a as a little thank you. Can I Can I do that? Can I come up? you. Yep. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, Andrew. Next up is Gabe Hungerford. >> Good evening and thank you so much, honorable council, for the opportunity to speak tonight. It's a pleasure to be here. Uh my name again is Gabe Hungerford, and I'm a principal with the Traml Crow Company, and I'm here to express our strong support for the downtown project. TCC and its residential subsidiary, High Street Residential, is an active multifamily developer in Thousand Oaks with two significant projects here right in the city. We're excited to commit our time, our resources, and our capital to developing in Thousand Oaks for the same reason that the people in this room are here this evening. Candidly, Thousand Oaks rocks. It's a great place. It has a community of people who care with access to vibrant local business, a high quality of life, and breathtaking scenery. However, Thousand Oaks does not have a true downtown. Luckily, it does have a plan to create a downtown that brings together public amenities, retail, and housing. This plan really represents smart growth. It responds to the needs of the city today while elevating adjacent public assets and providing a canvas and a catalyst for investment and cultural enrichment. It's welldesigned, it's well thought out, and it's well studied. The only problem is that it's not built yet. The next step in that journey is the getting to that finished state is this decision before you this evening. We commend the city and the council for their thoughtful preparation and consideration of this project and we wholeheartedly request your support. Thank you. >> Thank you, Gabe. Next up is Justin Doring. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, members of the city council and staff. My name is Justin Doring. I'm the president of the Ventura County Deputy Sheriff's Association. I represent deputy sheriffs and district attorney investigators across the county, including those that live and work here in Thousand Oaks. Personally, I've had the privilege of working patrol and investigations in this city, and I've seen firsthand how much this community values safety and quality of life. We've had the opportunity to review the downtown Thousand Oaks project, and I want to express our support. We appreciate the thoughtfulness and long-term vision that has gone into this effort. To us, this project is really about creating a place where people actually want to be. Somewhere our residents can gather, spend time, and feel connected to their community. From a law enforcement perspective, one of the most important components is the addition of housing. Expanding housing options for our members and other public safety professionals that live in the communities they serve not only rec uh supports recruitment and retention, but creates stronger community relationships. We also recognize that as communities grow, it creates opportunities to align resources with those needs, including additional public safety resources. And when you combine housing with local businesses, restaurants, and public spaces, it creates a more active, visible, and engaged environment overall, which is positive for both the community life and public safety. On behalf of the Ventur County Deputy Sheriff's Association, we appreciate the work that has gone into this project and respectfully encourage you to keep moving it forward. Thank you. >> Thank you, Justin. and we appreciate public safety tremendously here. Next up is uh Benedict Chu and then after I'll call the next five. >> Mayor Taylor, Thousand Oak City Council. My name is Benedict Chu. I'm the ATO site lead. Uh and I'm joined here by my colleagues Cassie Johnson, our director of corporate affairs and Chad Pettit, our head of uh uh our site head for government affairs. Uh, as a long-standing member of the Thousand Oaks community, Amjun is proud to support the downtown Thousand Oaks project. Since our founding more than 45 years ago, we have seen the city grow into an exceptional place to live and work, and we believe the project is an essential investment in its future. For many Amnen employees, Thousand Oaks is more than just the location of our headquarters. It is our home. For these individuals and families, the character of the community hub reflects the kind of environment that helps people feel connected to the places where they live. It creates opportunities for neighbors to gather, for families to spend time together, and for residents to enjoy a stronger sense of community and belonging. These qualities are increasingly important to people looking for not only professional opportunity, but also a community that supports a balanced, engaged, and fulfilling lifestyle. A thriving downtown also contributes to the long-term vitality of the broader community. By developing the to boulevard corridor into a dynamic destination, this project could strike would strengthen Thousand Oaks as a place where the best and the brightest want to remain, invest, and put roots down. Thank you so much for having us. >> Thank you, Benedict. The next five will be Lisa Powell, Haley Salat, Clint Folultz, Jackson Piper, and Randy Guthrie. We'll start with Lisa Powell. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, esteemed council members, and city staff. My name is Lisa Powell. I've been a Thousand Oaks resident since 2004. raised my children here and I currently serve our community as a CVUSD schoolboard trustee. I'm here tonight as an individual to voice my support for the downtown plan. In January, I had the good fortune to be invited here for a leader lunch by VCLA at the Civic Arts Plaza where we received a presentation on the plan. The presentation was impressive. I was impressed by the vision, the thoughtful design, and the focus on community and a safe, inclusive public space. I've worked in hospice and older adult services in the county and those of us working in these spheres have been hyper aware for a very long time of the demographic shifts taking place in Ventura County namely the aging of our population Thousand Oaks even more so than the county as a whole and the implication of these changes as a school board trustee I examine demographic data regularly to understand student enrollment trends which as most of us know is declining across California what's needed is innovative future-facing local planning to ensure Thousand Oaks is vibrant and livable for the long term. I'm sure most of us speaking here tonight are here because we love this community, but we but how we show our care for our community, in my opinion, needs to include vision and planning for the future. Let's make sure Thousand Oaks continues to be a place that people not only want to live in, but visit. I appreciate the community discussions, staff work, and expertise that have gone into this plan. This has the potential to be a space where folks of all types can gather together. It holds great promise of being a very good thing for our local economy as well for the future of Thousand Oaks. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Lisa. Next up is Haley Salot. >> Good evening. My name is Haley. I was born and raised in Westlake Village and I graduated from Westlake High School. As a local resident, I love the idea of affordable housing for people around my age because in this area, we do not have newly built properties with affordable units. I'm not asking for Thousand Oaks to become Los Angeles, but I am asking Thousand Oaks to make room for people who grew up here, who want to stay, but cannot afford it without living at home. Or their other choice is to leave the community entirely for more affordable housing. We need more options rather than just large single family homes that are out of reach for most people starting out. As for the downtown part of this project, I spend a lot of my time and money outside of Thousand Oaks in places like Los Angeles or Santa Barbara or other places that have more restaurants, music, art, nightife, and interesting places to walk around. That is money and energy that could be staying here if there were more fun things to do in Thousand Oaks. I think what people forget is the one thing in life that is guaranteed is change. and I think this community needs a good and positive change. Thank you. >> Thank you, Haley. Next up is Clint Folultz. >> Hello, my name is Clint Folultz. I'm a resident of Thousand Oaks and a member of the Cano Climate Coalition. Our organization has submitted a letter for the record with additional comments. I'd like to thank Akbar Alakan and the city for listening to our concerns and implementing climate and environmentally minded design features into this project. As a grassroots community group, we have been in conversation with Akbar and city staff concerning this project since March of 2024. As sustainable housing advocates, we are pleased to know that homes with walkability in mind will be built in our downtown area and that 39 of those homes will be affordable housing units. We would like to see a higher percentage of affordable units, but acknowledge that this is the highest percentage of affordable units proposed in our city to date for this type of project. The housing will be 100% electric, eliminating dangerous gas lines, and use up to 65% less water than single family homes. Features such as on-site public ebike charging, low water use native plants, passive solar strategies, and an emphasis on mo multimodal transportation is exactly what our community needs to help futureproof our city and keep us safer in a changing climate. Let's preserve our muchloved open space and build infill projects like this one. The downtown project will help create a forward-thinking, walkable downtown city center with a focus on environmental sustainability that will serve the people of our city. I hope to see this project move forward and I thank city staff for helping to make this project one that our community can be proud of. Thank you. >> Thank you, Clint. Next up, we have Jackson Piper in person. Jackson usually joins us on Zoom. It's nice to see you in person. >> Yes, I'm in person this time. I actually considered this important enough to take time off work for this particular meeting. So, thank you. My name is Jackson Piper. I live in unincorporated in Newbury Park. Um, Thousand Oaks is my home city and um I am thrilled to be able to speak on this item as both an urban planner and a a person who's interested in seeing more housing and more civic vitality brought to Thousand Oaks. Um you heard from Akbar's presentation and Kristine's presentation before that um about how housing as one component of our city is really a critical issue for um especially from what Actar highlighted um 25 to 50 year olds making under 150,000 a year uh leaving our city because they can't afford to continue to be here and that's really because the type of housing on offer for most Thousand Oaks if you can get it is single family housing that is just out of reach of that demographic. And I want to see more balance of different types of housing in the city. This is a great way of setting a precedent for the rest of the city um especially within that area that we designated as um area of change to provide more apartments, more condos once the state fixes the problems with that um type of development. This is a great vision. I want to see it brought uh forward into reality. Please support staff circumnation. Bring this housing and this civic vitality into our community. Give us this downtown. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jackson. And then last up in this five is Ron Randy Guthrie. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, members of the city council and city staff. My name is Randy Guthrie with Athens Services and I have the honor of speaking tonight as chair of the board for the Greater Kaneo Valley Chamber of Commerce. Our chamber has proudly built a coalition of over 125 members, some of whom you've already heard some and many more you'll hear from throughout tonight who support the downtown vision. The coalition represents major employers such as Amgen, Los Robas Health, Teada, Hyatt, Regency, Westlake, CLU, Kaiser, Skoey, and Warner Pacific. It also includes our hospitality industry and locallyowned businesses along Tio Boulevard, including Tarantula Hill, West Tasting Room, Newberry Candy, Mouthful Eery, Sunland Vintage Winery, Harmony Family Yoga, and Made in Italy to name a few. Joining them are respected nonprofits including to arts, the boys and girls club, housing trust fund, Ventura County, Art Trek, Momentum, and Mana. Together, they represent some of the region's most influential employers, institutions, and community organizations united by a shared commitment to the long-term success of Thousand Oaks in the Kaneo Valley. Years from now, when families gather in the town square, entrepreneurs open new storefronts. Visitors discover Thousand Oaks for the first time and community celebrations fill Main Street. This coalition hopes to look back on this moment as a defining investment in the future of our community. Tonight, we are asking the council for a future where we can say, "Meet me downtown." >> Thank you, Randy. Next up is going to be the five floor devise, Kyle Roarbach, Maline Freriedman, Carrie Howard, and Brian Freriedman. Good evening, mayor, council members, and staff. My name is Flur De, and I'm a resident and business owner here in Thousand Oaks. A few years ago, when my husband and I were considering a move from Chicago to the Thousand Oaks area, we came to explore this area with our entire family. We arrived in the evening and not knowing Thousand Oaks at all, I opened the maps app and searched for the city center. It brought us right to this very place, City Hall. I remember we were so confused. But after a few days in Thousand Oaks, I realized why it had brought us here. Thousand Oaks doesn't really have a city center. In my work, I help organizations build community because connection is what helps people thrive. The same is true for cities. In a time when many people feel increasingly disconnected, we need places that bring people together, places where people can gather, kids can play, people can meet to connect, and local businesses can flourish. A city center is more than a location on a map. It is the heart of a community. I fully support the project as it helps create a place where connection and community can grow for generations to come. Thank you. >> Thank you. And what a beautiful name. I'm glad you said it because I did not do it justice. Kyle. >> Good evening, mayor, council members, staff. My name is Kyle Roarbach. I grew up in Thousand Oaks. Four generations of my family currently call our beautiful city home. Admittedly, this is a different take for Thousand Oaks. And different, I think, is exactly the point. For too long, we have treated the arts and culture as a nice to have and not a necessity. The National Endowment for the Arts in 2024 found that the people who live in cultural hubs and regularly attend live events and cultural events are significantly less likely to experience loneliness. At a moment when the US Surgeon General has declared loneliness a public health crisis, that is not a small thing. The arts don't just make a city more interesting, they actively make it healthier. I'm the vice chair of TO Arts and our work is rooted in a simple belief that this is a city where the arts should thrive for all. A public market, a blackbox theater, an arts incubator, a town square where people actually gather. That is how you build community that people actually want to live in. Now, I understand there are people who love this city exactly the way it is and I respect that because I do too. But the Thousand Oaks Thousand Oaks I grew up in is not the same one that my parents knew and that's a good thing. Cities change and those that do it with intention are the ones worth sticking around for. And I want the people who come after us to get to love this place in the same way that I do. I urge this council to move forward. Thank you. >> Thank you, Kyle. Next up is Meline. >> Good evening. My name is Maline Freriedman and I'm about to be 15. I was born in Thousand Oaks and I am very involved at toss as a journalist for student media. I'm also an executive member of Youth Arts Leadership Academy under TO Arts and I've served in the Thousand Oaks Youth Leadership Summit. I know many people here are concerned about change. I understand that. We all love to and want to protect what makes it special. Despite what some groups of people say online, details of this downtown absolutely do consider our city's natural beauty and will be created by experts who are personally familiar with our area. Please do not believe propaganda that says otherwise. I also hope that we can think about the future and the next generation. Many young people who grew up here want to stay here someday, but living in to as adults feels out of reach. We want to become teachers, nurses, business owners, artists, and community leaders. I don't know how I can return to live here with my parents' financial support despite desperately wanting to live near family. The downtown project is about more than just housing. It is a chance to create a community gathering place. And right now, we don't really have that. As a singer, dancer, and professional actor, the arts are extremely important to me. Within the details of this downtown plan, art is at its core. Art is something that brings people together. Are the people who are against this downtown also against art? A vibrant downtown is a place where families gather, local artists perform and display their work, small businesses thrive, and people from all backgrounds can connect. This sounds like a place that brings people together, not tears them apart. That does that does seem that does not seem to be the focus of some folks here tonight. The city we enjoy today exists because previous generations invested in this future. Now we have the chance to do the same. I'm excited by a plan that supports the arts and builds a gathering place for our entire community. Thank you so much. Thank you, Matteline. Next up is Carrie Howard. >> Good evening. Um, my name is Carrie Howard from Newbury Park and I am reading this comment on behalf of a friend who could not be here tonight. My name is Megan Oager. I have lived in Thousand Oaks for nearly all of my 39 years. My grandparents were original homeowners in Newbury Park in 1965. My parents attended CVUSD schools. My husband and I attended CVUSD schools. Today, our four children attend CVUSD schools and I serve as the proud principal of a CVUSD elementary school. My husband is a Ventura County Sheriff's deputy. As you can see, we have dedicated our careers to serving the community that raised us. When we finished college and military service, we wanted to return to Thousand Oaks and raise our family here. We couldn't afford to do it. We spent six years living outside the area before we were finally able to come back through careers in local public service. But today, I worry that my children may not have that same opportunity. As a principal, I see the impact of declining enrollment every single day. When my husband and I were students, our schools were full. CVUSD once served around 23,000 students, and today enrollment is closer to 15,000. There are fewer neighborhood kids and fewer young families putting down roots here. I therefore support this project because housing matters if we want a thriving community. Most importantly, we need options for seniors who want to downsize, young families trying to get started, and college graduates who want to stay in Thousand Oaks but currently cannot afford to. I want future generations to have the same chance my family has had for four generations. And I believe this project moves us in that direction, and I encourage you to approve it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Carrie. And last is Brian Freriedman. Good evening. My name is Brian Freriedman. I grew up here in Thousand Oaks. I marched in the KJO Valley Days parade with the NPHs band before I headed off to Kalpali for college. I came back and spent 11 years working at Amgen. I'm totally team Thousand Oaks and I am for the downtown project. We've heard many only positive comments so far tonight and I'm but I've but I've heard many of the concerns and I'm sure we'll hear them later tonight as well. One thing I always hear is we don't want to turn into the valley. Well, I went to college in St. Louis Abyispo and let me tell you, you can have a vibrant downtown without being the valley. Slow has one. Ventura has one. We saw in the presentation how many cities near us have one. It doesn't make us the valley with one project. Then there's look at the lakes. We can't fill any retail space. But that's not a fair comparison because the lakes is private property and the owner hasn't had any incentive to fill it. Here the city owns the land and you all get to choose what who develops it and how. It's totally different. I hear but the trees that the buildings are too tall. What about the parking? We heard some of these questions tonight. Our city staff and Ventur County based architecture firm have spent years and many community sessions on exactly those questions. We saw all of the evidence of that tonight. I say trust their work. 90% of the oaks are preserved. There's new subterranean parking along the ample underutilized existing structure. If parking becomes a problem, I guess people love downtown enough to come after all. No, no plan would satisfy many of the people opposing this. They'll always find something to complain about because they are opposed to the idea of change itself. I believe we need to consider the future, not the past. If we want our kids to be able to come here after college, this project is part of how that happens. Please vote yes. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Next up, the next five will be Cat Selm, Michelle Winer, Carol McNut, Steve Woodward, and Scott Vanetta. And Cat will be first. Am I good to go? Okay. Hi. Good evening, everybody. So nice to see you all. Uh, council members and honorable mayor. Um, I'm gonna maybe go a little off script, but I just want to say that um, some of the comments that you've heard tonight are a lot of them are from youth, and I'm not a youth anymore, but I am of a generation that can't really afford I'm hanging on by a thread living here like a lot of people are. U, this project doesn't solve all of our housing issues. Certainly not. But it goes, uh, it makes an impact. and projects like this make an impact to my generation and future generations who want not just affordable housing but third places to go to which postcoid we don't really have those anymore. Uh we want environmental sustainability. My generation and and the one following cares more about those things. Um and this downtown project has impacts to be sure. Some of them are aesthetic, air quality, protected trees, but I think the project really expertly balances the needs of the next generation and the perceived and actual impacts. The benefits are a thriving downtown center that puts Thousand Oaks on the map with a futurep proof, environmentally sustainable and healthy affordable housing, community meeting spaces, and more transparency with our own government. It'll make it easier to even get here and have these meetings. The project does remove trees, but it's being developed on an infill site that doesn't require encroachment into wildlands. Kaneo Climate Coalition submitted comments that I would love for you all to read that have extra mitigation actions for the impacts to trees. I would really like you all to consider, including and would please support this project. Thank you. >> Thank you, Cat and Michelle, you're going to be next. I just want to say this really quick. Thank you so much for just honoring the decorum and the council norms. Uh we'll build up, we'll go nuts when this thing's over, but thank you guys so much for honoring that. All right, Michelle, you're up. Maybe we don't have Michelle. Are you Carol? >> I'm not Michelle. I'm Carol. >> Okay, Carol. Um, if Michelle comes back, we'll have her go, but you're up. >> Um, I just wanted to say you made the comment about um the time because of so many speakers. Um, so this will be very short. Um, I just wanted to say that I appreciated the council member bringing up the thing about our history. I think it's so important that as we're, you know, looking at building this um, center for Thousand Oaks, for people that are coming and looking for the future, I think it's important for them to know what came before them, what the past is, you know. Um, anyway, I think that that's really important. Um, and I just wanted to say, uh, that I know looking for the future, we want people who have grown up here to be able to stay. Uh, the thing that I'm concerned about with is the height of the buildings. I don't I don't agree with the height of the buildings. So, there it is. Short and sweet. I'm opposed. >> Thanks, >> opposed as is. >> I appreciate. >> Yeah. Too tall. >> Thank you. All right. Um, I'm I'm going to ask again, please, we'll keep the applause for the end. We don't want that one to be weak when we finish. We want it to be strong. Next up, we have Steve. >> Good evening, council members and staff. I'm Steve Woodward. We moved to Thousand Oaks 22 years ago for both the small town feel with a large equestrian park, cycling roads amongst the mountains, peaceful neighborhoods, performing arts, the beach not too far away, as well as a vibrant and beautiful town near Los Angeles. After we moved in, settled in, remodeled, relocated our successful business here, we took a beat and started looking for a fun local nightife. Everything involved driving around. very difficult to walk from one venue to another. If we wanted to visit multiple places on foot, we had to go to Ventura. If we tried that here, it'd be $100 or more in a night for Uber fees or simply be stuck in one place. We looked at her at each other and exclaimed, real talk here, where the f is the downtown? Why does Ventura have a walkable downtown? And we don't. This is the nicest city in Ventura County. Every year since then, I've asked myself that question. And when I mention it to friends here, they seem to agree. As residents age and housing prices go up, it's more and more difficult for children of residents and those who work here to live in the same city without new supplies of housing. If the city can't accommodate more housing for younger people and especially for folks who work and live in our city, like any living body, without strategic growth and replenishment, a living body dies. Increased supply helps control housing costs. And for those concerned about density and overdevelopment, we're talking about a couple blocks, 17 acres. We are not in intruding on residential neighborhoods. It's a 1% increase in the population. And don't forget that due to CRPD land and Costco land, Thousand Oaks can never approach the population density of the San Fernando Valley. Those concerns are as overblown now as they were in 1992. over the very building we're in right now. To have fun together is to be human. On behalf of all funloving Thousand Oaks residents, I urge all five of you to vote yes on this downtown project. >> Scott, thank you. Um, next. Oh, I'm Is it Steve or next? >> Steve. Wow. Scott, here we go. Sorry about that. >> Hi, I'm Scott and I've lived in Thousand Oaks for 20 years. I've worked here for 21. I moved here both for work and for family. I chose to raise my two kids here for all the usual reasons, schools, safety, open space. [snorts] Uh, and I use the open space probably more than most people, but I also know that it's protected and I don't have to worry about it being developed. Um, but I think my kids also deserve, and I think we all deserve a vibrant city center. We can have the best of both worlds in this beautiful city without sacrificing any quality of life. I'm in favor of this project. >> Thank you, Scott. The next five are going to be Mike Arari, Nelson Bus, Sean McCarthy, Leanne Nielsen, and John Gusner. And Mike, whenever you're ready, you can start. All right. Good evening, mayor and council members. Uh, my name is Mike Arari, and I'm here representing Premier America Credit Union. Uh, as we know, the credit unions are deeply committed to the communities that we serve, but more importantly, I'm also here as someone who's called Thousand Oaks home for over 40 years. Um, I grew up here. I went to school here. I've seen how this community has evolved over time. Uh, over these uh over these years, I've seen what makes Thousand Oaks special. It's that strong local business engaged resident uh and a real sense of pride in where we live and work. Uh, I've also seen the ongoing uh, conversations about creating a true downtown, a place that brings people together, reflects who we are, and positions the city for the future. When I think about the last 40 years, we've made meaningful progress. We've built a stronger local community, expanded healthcare and education, created more opportunities for small businesses, and invested in the quality of life that keeps people here. This project doesn't change what Thousand Oaks is. It builds on what it has already become, and it reflects years of thoughtful planning and community input. What we haven't done yet is bring all that together into one place. And I believe that's what this project represents. From a business standpoint, a vibrant, walkable downtown isn't just an amenity. It's an economic driver. It attracts investments, supports local businesses, creates jobs, and helps retain and attract talent. Those are the foundations of long-term economic strength. But just as importantly on a personal level, this is about community. It's about creating a place where people spend time, not just pass through. a place that feels shared and connected while still preserving the character that makes Thousand Oaks amazing. Um, I believe this project is the next step for Thousand Oaks. >> Thank you, Mike. Next up is Nelson. >> It's only 90 seconds. I'll dispense with the pleasantries. I have lived here for 38 years. I too remember before Arbles and West Blake Boulevard connected when sheep grazed along Madura Olsen where the Reagan Library now stands. I have friends who have rode their horses through the Taco Bell 100 yards from this site to to to pick up food. Since then, many of my classmates from toss and clu have less left for less expensive and more family-friendly communities across the country. They left because they had good jobs and were still priced out. Our school age population has dropped in 35 years from onethird of the population to 1/5if. My oldest, 28 and 30 years old, both found themselves priced out of the cities when returning after the US military took them overseas. I have heard many residents lament tall buildings and more traffic, hoping to shut the door on new residents and preserve this city as the place they remember when they first arrived. I, for one, see a possibility for my youngest, 11 and 13, to find their place in this community when they grow up. I am confident that this could be a beautiful and complimentary addition to this community, an opportunity for desperately needed housing. I'm grateful we are here tonight considering the needs of our next generation and I thank you for your yes votes. Thank you Nelson. Next up is Sean. [clears throat] >> Good evening council staff uh all my neighbors. Um my wife and I both grew up in this area and after I graduated from Cal Lutheran within two years we opened up a community space. Um, COVID hit, we opened up another community space and the question arose, why stay in this area with housing prices going up, a lot of our friends moving, and we couldn't help but have this love letter to the place that we grew up, this love for Thousand Oaks. And a similar question came up as I was thinking, why would I come to this city council meeting and spend hours of unpaid time sitting around um and then I look around and I see how many hundreds of hours have been invested into this process. And so I want to speak into the process and especially Akbar and lift up his uh his um timeless or not even time focused uh efforts and so many people here not paid but just focused on what makes this community a little bit better and I want to thank for the care the uh compassion and the love for Thousand Oaks and the next step. So I'm looking forward to this future. Thanks you all. >> Thank you Sean. Next up is Leanne. >> My name is Leanne Nielsen and I serve as the provost of California Lutheran University and I'm here to express support for the Thousand Oaks Downtown Project. Cal Lutheran serves more than 3,000 students. This year alone, our students came from 40 states and 67 countries. They moved to Thousand Oaks looking for a great place to learn, live, explore, and be and belong. The downtown project is an opportunity to strengthen the sense of community that extends beyond our campus, which is critical to student experience, engagement, and success. The mix of amenities, including expanded art opportunities and the public market, will create meaningful spaces for connection, culture, and everyday life. We are especially excited about the inclusion of Cal Lutheran's Hub 101 within the project, creating a vibrant hub for entrepreneurship and business incubation. Last month, we celebrated commencement and graduated more than a thousand students. We want these graduates to stay in our community, raise their families here, and contribute their talents and energy to our local economy. Expanding housing opportunities and creating a vibrant downtown will help encourage our graduates to make Thousand Oaks their long-term home. Cal Lutheran strongly supports the Thousand Oaks downtown project and we look forward to continuing our strong partnership with the city of Thousand Oaks. >> Thank you, Leanne. Excuse me, Leanne. Next up is John. Thank you, mayor, and council members for allowing me this opportunity to speak. Um, instead of saying I'm for this or against this, I'm going to ask two questions and present you with an observation. The first question I have after hearing the presentation tonight is around parking. How exactly did you calculate your parking? Uh, many multifamily homes have more than one car. So, did you m did you calculate two cars, three cars? If you have lower income uh housing, they usually have three to four cars depending upon how many people have to live in that one room. Secondly, uh we talked about commercial space and are you guys have plans for who's coming into the commercial space? Are you following the method of if we build it, they will come? We have open retail space at the mall at Jans's, right? So, we have open real retail space that isn't being taken up now. So, how are we planning to fulfill that? We couldn't keep a PF chains or an Outback, but we're talking about bringing in other things. And I've heard the term boutique. boutique doesn't sound to me lowincome or that sounds high income. So, is that the right message we want to we want to share? And then my final observation is the assistant city manager said he loved the Ventura downtown. I love the Ventura downtown. Everybody loves the Ventura downtown, but that's because it's historic. It was organically built. It has that human scale feeling developed over decades. Inserting large new multi-story modern buildings into a suburban context doesn't create that charm. I'm for the project if we uh vamp downtown, not the way you guys are planning to do it. We need to think about it and make sure we do it that in a way that's charming and fulfills everybody's needs. >> Thank you, John. And just so you know, we'll have Excuse me, guys. We're going to keep the applauses down, please. Uh staff will answer questions at the end, just so you know if you can stick around. Thank you. Uh, next five are going to be Albert Lowe, Chuck Leachch, uh, Ellen Garrett, Mary Dempsey, and Nikki Richardson. >> And just to remind everybody, we don't pick the order. Everybody shows up and gets on the list. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Albert Lowe. I currently serve as the board chair of to Arts and I'm here to express my and our strong support for the downtown Thousand Oaks project. Your two existing theaters, the Kathleen and Shear have been performing arts main stays in Thousand Oaks for over 30 years. To believes to arts believes and have been promoting that art consists of more than just the performing arts. It should also include visual arts which the downtown project will help develop for our city. Part of our mission is to help existing artists in our community not to survive but to thrive. We want art local artists to stay in our city and find opportunities here. We want to keep our local talent here. This project will have space for artists to create, showcase, and sell their art. There will be an outdoor pavilion where local artists can get a start and exposure at minimum cost cost. Right now, our patrons come to the theaters arriving before the performances start and leave right after. Within 30 minutes, this is a ghost town. We want our patrons to spend the evening before and after the shows to socialize, have dinner or drinks. Being able to stay around the theaters will create a vibrant and safe community meeting place. All this will be accomplished with this project. As leaders of the city of Thousand Oaks, you have the responsibility for the overall health and safety of the city. It is a responsibility that I know you do not take lightly or you would not have been elected to this council. Certainly, there can be issues about fire, traffic, or aesthetics, but these have been addressed by third party entities. You must look out for the overall well-being on this city and community to make sure that it continues to grow and be vibrant so that our schools, businesses, and artists can stay and survive. A city that does not grow and attract families, business, or talent will ultimately die a slow death. I hope you will approve the project. >> Thank you, Albert. Next up is Chuck Le. [snorts] >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor and city council. Uh my name is Chuck Le and I'm the speaking tonight as the government affairs director for the Cano Simmore Park Association of Realtor. >> Chuck, get that mic. Yeah, there you go. >> I won't go over that. But I have been a resident of Thousand Oaks since 1977. Over the past five years, five decades, I have watched this city become the community we value today because past leaders were willing to consider thoughtful change. Many of the places we now take pride in were once vacant land or the subject of controversial proposals. the Oaks Mall, this city hall, the Civic Arts Plaza, the Lakes, the Prominade, the Grand Prim Hall Library, the Global Adult Community Center, the Alex Fiori Teen Center. All of these uh I could throw in the Gardens of the World. That didn't replace a vacant art. That actually replaced a tavern in a lumber yard, but I think we came out ahead on that one. Those improvements came about through planning, public discussion, hard questions, and debate. But because people were willing to look beyond the immediate objections, those projects became lasting public assets. That same kind of judgment is needed tonight. Progress means asking whether a project serves the community's long-term interest. I believe believe this project does. It provides the housing our city generally needs and it puts it an area removed from other existing areas and open space. Thank you. >> Thank you, Chuck. Next up is Ellen Garrett. >> Ellen's not here. Okay. Next up after that is Mary Dempsey. Oh, okay. Hey, no Mary Nikki Richardson. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, city council and staff. My name is Nikki Choper Richardson and I'm the executive director of TO0 Arts, the nonprofit partner of the Bank of America Performing Arts Center and I also serve on the board of the Greater Kaneo Chamber Valley of Com Greater Cano Valley Chamber of Commerce. Thousand Oaks is a city that understands research and development. We have built an entire economic identity around the idea that breakthrough results require investing in the space between early research and final product. That middle stage, the lab, the incubator, the place where ideas become real, is where everything actually happens. And the arts are no different. We live in a fractured time. And I don't think anyone in this room would argue with that. But I have watched over and over again what happens when people walk into a theater together. It doesn't matter what they believe, who they voted for, or what they're afraid of. The lights go down and they are simply human beings sharing an experience. The arts don't ask you to agree. They ask you to feel. And feeling together is how communities heal. Research backs this up. The US Surgeon General has identified the arts as the frontline resource for countering the epidemic of loneliness, tearing at the fabric of our communities. And here in Ventura County, the creative economy generates 4.5 billion in economic output, nearly twice the gross value of our entire agricultural sector. This is not a soft sector. This is an economic engine. The downtown Thousand Oaks project builds the middle, the incubator, the intermediate stage where artists grow, neighbors gather, and a community remembers what it has in common. That is an investment worth making. Thank you. Thank you, Nikki. The next five will be Ryan Selvin, Kinsey Flame, Kimmy Tharp, Mike Salasi, Salacei, and Tom Fitzgibbon. Ready to go. >> You're ready to go whenever you're ready. >> Yeah. >> Good evening, esteemed council members, city staff, uh, Mayor Taylor, and all guests here. My name is Ryan Sullivan. I am the general manager of Selvin Properties, a commercial property management company based in Thousand Oaks. I'm speaking here tonight in support of the downtown project as submitted for many reasons, a few of which I've highlighted. 30 years ago, my grandfather, Harry Selvin, chose to build a business and a life here in Thousand Oaks because the city is so forwardinking. The passing of the civic arts master plan back in 1987 is evidence of this forwardthinking nature at work. Nearly four years ago, my wife and I decided to relocate from Santa Monica to Thousand Oaks because of so many qualities that make it such a great place to raise a family. I want to see our city thrive for all generations. Unfortunately, a portion of our current citizens aren't taking a thoughtful approach towards the future of our city and where we might be lacking in order to continue to attract young, hardworking professionals that are looking for a place outside of LA to raise a family, to start a business, and still have activities available past 9:00 p.m. Yes, past some of your bedtimes. We shouldn't leave Thousand Oaks to find activities, dining, or entertainment. This project ensures that my child grows up in a city that is active and inclusive, walkable and safe with a downtown that has local purveyors set in a vibrant downtown market surrounded by green spaces. This project not only creates a true central gathering place that the city's lacking, but also serves to revitalize the entire downtown corridor, creating momentum that hasn't previously existed. This project will transform the downtown area and our city for the better with a central gathering place that gives everyone a far greater opportunity. >> Thank you. I got to cut you off just because we have so many speakers. Um, look, just so everybody knows, we're coming up on my bedtime, so you know, it is what it is. Uh, next up is Kinsey Flame. >> Good evening, city council members. My name is Kinsey Flame. I live in Newbury Park. My family has lived in Ventura County for five generations. We've worked in the oil fields. We've worked in the packing houses. We've sat on a multitude of different boards. But that doesn't mean that my opinion here has any more weight than anybody else's that's lived here for 5 months a year. You don't have to live here for 50 years to make a public comment or to have an opinion about our city. One thing I hope is that we can all remember that all of our voices matter. Whether you've lived here for 50 years or five months, I'm here tonight because I'm excited about the downtown project. The project gives us the opportunity to transform existing public space into a place where community happens. It creates a gathering place for families, communities, events, local celebrations, and the kind of memories that become core memories for our children. It also strengthens our local economy. I am a small business owner in Cano Valley. It is hard. I have been at work since 7:00 in the morning and I am still here tonight. Please give us this opportunity to grow. Bringing more people into our city creates an opportunity for our local businesses to succeed. So, I respectfully ask that you vote yes on this project. Allow our community to grow, allow our economy to grow, and allow the people of Thousand Oaks to thrive. And as you cast your vote tonight, please remember that all of our voices matter. Thank you. >> Thank you, Kinsey. And I'm starting to annoy myself having to repeat it. Um, again, if you guys want to do the what is this called? Jazz hands. >> Run it up. Right. Uh, but I I really want to make sure everybody's heard on this one. And just kind of a reminder. I know we have differing differing opinions on things. This is our community. These are our neighbors. And if we could show just everyone that this is love. This is different opinions. And we're going to do life together. I'm just asking if we can respect different opinions. that would be I think make this overall experience for all of us much better. So, thank you guys. I appreciate this so far. And now we have Kimmy Tharp. >> Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of city council. My name is Kimmy Tharp. I serve as vice president and center manager at Citizens Business Bank here in Thousand Oaks. I'm also a past president of the Westlake Village Rotary Club and a board member of the Greater Cano Valley Chamber of Commerce where I currently serve as chair-elect. Thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. I'm here to voice my support for the downtown project. From a community and nonprofit perspective, this project creates something incredibly valuable. A central place for people to gather, connect, and engage. Spaces for meetings and events will allow organizations like Rotary and many others to expand their service, host fundraisers, and bring people together in meaningful ways. The Kho Valley is an engaged community where connection and involvement are part of our fabric. This project will build on that strength by creating new opportunities and spaces that bring fresh energy and continue to foster engagement for years to come. This project has the potential to become a lasting hub for connection, service, and community life. I respectfully urge you to vote in favor of the downtown project. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Kimmy. Next up will be Mike Celisi. Selei, Mr. Mr. Mayor, but it's been butchered all my life, man. So, >> I'm adding to the problem. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, honorable council, uh, Mr. Powers, and professional staff. My name is Mike Salache, and my family and I have been residents of Newberry Park for nearly 29 years, and I'm here tonight to express my strong support of the recommended downtown project. I truly believe it is an innovative vision and plan for a re-imagined civic center and true downtown and the highest and best use for this location. 29 years ago, my family relocated here from the Bay Area as a result of a corporate job transfer. We looked at a number of communities in Ventura County, but we chose to live in Thousand Oaks for its special and unique community character and and the great public schools. Over the years, we've enjoyed living here and appreciated the care careful stewardship by our city leaders in maintaining balance to preserve that unique character and quality of life for our city and for our residents, especially the many intelligent development improvements over the years guided by practical guidelines. I believe that the current proposed downtown plan continues to maintain the right balance resulting in a a vibrant downtown center benefiting our residents, visitors, and local businesses. further improving our quality of life and economic vitality. I also appreciate that great care was taken to ensure ample time for broad and diverse community impact to shape the current plan. For these reasons and many more, I strongly support the plan and I urge you to support as well. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mike. And then next up will be Tom Fitzgibbon. >> Hi, thank you. I'm Tom Fitzgibbon. I'm an attorney. I've lived in Newbury Park for over 21 years. Uh my wife Dara has lived here for over 28 years. We have two girls that went to Newbury Park. Uh like me, they're in favor of the project and support its approval to reach the twin goals of promoting housing affordability in a vibrant city center. Uh we love this city and wanted to thrive like everybody here. That's why people are here because we care. Um but to do so, the city cannot be static or look to a mythical past. This project is positive and reflects a forward-looking vision, and we ask that you approve it. To has always been a city of outdoor activities and families, and that's what makes it special. We all want that to continue. But if nothing is done, it won't happen. Too many older people like me living in a house with my kids at college and then only wealthy families and fewer and fewer people. Kids can't move back. We've already heard that. This project with 240 residents is not the panacea, but it's a start. It'll only have a thousand people total. So, it's not going to be massive growth as you may hear um with the shrinking population that we've had since 2017. There's not enough CVSD students as we've heard and the businesses can't thrive. We've heard all the young people speak in favor of the project. That's a reason you your job is to look for the entire community including the future. This project looks to the future. And you say you have a duty to make housing. If not here, where? It has to be somewhere. And we appreciate your time. And the city council has done a great job for 60 years. We trust you'll continue. Thank you. >> Thank you, Tom. All right. The next five are going to be Leah Thompson, Scott Horn, Lori Elim, Phil Hoff, and Michael Hart. Was I first? >> Uh, yes, you're up first. >> Hi. >> Hi. I'm kind of new to this. So my concerns are not just the project that you are trying to build here with the downtown, but we also have six other mixed unit properties and projects going on in our community. So my concerns are that if there is an evacuation and and there will be I'm sure at some point in time again that we have not just this project to be concerned about and the numbers that this lovely lady has given us about those concerns and meeting all the qualifications for um for leaving the community. Right? We have the one that's being built in Agora. We have two being built in Newberry Park and now we have the Kmart that's also being done and then we already have the two that are on Teio Boulevard. So, I'm not opposed to having a downtown. I think it's a lovely idea. I just don't really appreciate sevenstory buildings and I think that it should be a a little bit different um in regards to safety and our concerns about um water. uh scarcity and our our our electric grids. And I think we're we're imposing a lot of more new people to live in our comm community um than just this project. So, as far as the project goes, I think it's a lovely idea. I love the idea of a downtown. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, Leah. Next up is going to be Scott Horn. Happy 30th anniversary, Measure E. So sad to see you being ignored and now retired. My name is Scott Horn. I'm I live in Newbury Park. I've lived in the Kaneo Valley since 1971. 30 years ago, Thousand Oaks voters overwhelmingly approved Measure E, the city's slow growth initiative. We chose to protect the small town character, open spaces, and quality of life that makes Thousand Oaks great and unique. Measure E should shape the character of of Thousand Oaks by controlling development, local development, and ensuring the major uh major upzoning decisions cannot happen without a public vote. Instead, the city has used slight of hand tricks to circumvent the spirit of Measure E by moving housing units from one bank to another in order not to trigger a Measure E vote. The proposed civic arts plaza redevelopment moves us in a very different direction than Measure E represents. The seven-story buildings are not in character with Thousand Oaks. They should be scaled back. They're too big. City council had outreach meetings for the community about redevelopment. I attended one over overall just 250 people weighed in on the outreach meetings. That's just two residents per thousand. Before approving a project that fundamentally changes the character of the civic arts plaza, I urge the council to honor the spirit of Measure E and ask whether this proposal truly reflects the wishes of the residents who call Thousand Oaks homes. Please scale back the buildings or vote no. Thank you, Scott. Just to remind everybody, we still have about a hundred speakers left, so I I really want to honor them. Thank you, Scott. Next up is Lori Elim. >> I'm Lori Elum, a 19-year resident of Newberry Park and pleased to be a part of this forum. I'm a director of environmental health, safety, and sustainability at Teada Thousand Oaks, a pharmaceutical company supplying life-changing therapies for patients battling rare diseases worldwide. There was talk earlier of big birthdays. This year, Teada turned 245 years old. Our manufacturing site is located at the end of Rancho Cano Boulevard, adjacent to the picturesque KJO open space. I'm proud to be a part of the leadership team at Teada. Our site recently completed a $170 million expansion as well as Teada's largest solar panel installation for our global enterprise. We have long supported the vision for a future of a downtown that appeals to our employees and strengthens the community's state ability to attract new talent. We are excited to see this underutilized area, sub area E, transformed into a pedestrianoriented destination that highlights nature and enhances a living experience among the arts. A true downtown will be an important amenity as we recruit talent, creating an experience not currently available in our city and helping catalyze a future reinvesting along Thousand Oaks Boulevard. This plan also supports our diverse workforce from young professionals to senior leaders through a mix of gathering spaces and muchneeded variety of housing options. We appreciate the city's thoughtful approach to the community outreach. Thank you, Council Mayor Taylor and Council Mayor Member Newman for your statements regarding psychological safety during this forum. I look forward to a partnership for creating a better future for Thousand Oaks. Thank you. >> Thank you, Lori. Next up is Philhoff. >> Good evening. My name is Phil Hoff. I've been a resident of the KJO Valley for about 15 years and my family's lived here since 1980. I've served as town councilman in Castic in northern LA County and before that on the land use committee there. We reviewed all development projects in the greater Castic area. I have two objections to this project. First, no alternatives to this maximum option have been presented or evaluated. Normally, SQA requires this. I don't see any other options being discussed or considered. And I think that is a state requirement if I'm not incorrect. it was when I was a councilman. Significant plan amendments require comparison of those alternates and it's lacking here. Secondly, let's be clear what this process is. The city itself applies for the project, reviews the project, advocates the project, amends the general plan to allow this project, and now is set to approve the project. Conflict of interest doesn't get any planer than this. And I think that explains the lack of alternatives. The whole team is focused on one alternative that it prefers. We're not hearing alternatives. Measure E passed in 1996. It meant increases such as this would have to go before voters. Did I mention the city gave itself an exemption to the measure E requirement? What's being attempted here might be legal, but it's corrupt. It's ironic that on this 250ear celebration of our democracy, our city council is not going to present this project to a vote of its citizens. Let the people decide. You know, it's the right thing to do. Thank you. [applause] Thank you. Next up is Michael Hart. Thank you, city council. My name is Michael Hart. I'm a professor and associate dean at California Lutheran University and sit on the board of directors for to arts. As we heard earlier, the number of children and youth has declined substantially in our county and our city within the past 10 years. We need to develop a city where our youth want to and can stay after they graduate. This need is reflected in the comments I hear from my own students. Many speak about their love of this area, but realistically understand that it is largely unaffordable for them. If they are able to stay, they express a desire for a walkable public space with entertainment and shopping options. Further, many of our employers are recruiting promising and talented people. Unfortunately though, most of these people are choosing to commute to Thousand Oaks and live elsewhere because again, they cannot afford to live in the area and we do not have the types of spaces this project proposes. While the number of proposed units does not solve all of our housing problems, it does make progress. Further, the downtown project will help create a welcoming and inclusive gathering space that will boost our local economy and artistic community. Having these walkable spaces right next to the Bank of America Performing Arts Center will generate and sustain a thriving community. For these reasons, I urge the city council to support this project. Thank you. >> Thank you, Michael. Next five are going to be Len Smalberg, Joel Price, Trevan Hape, Crystal Evans, and Ashley Rusco. >> [clears throat] >> Uh, good evening, mayor, council members, and uh, and staff. My name is Lance Smolberg, and I'm currently serving as the CEO of the Boys and Girls Clubs of Greater Kaneo Valley. I'm here to express my support for the downtown Thousand Oaks project. I think we can all agree that Thousand Oaks is an incredible place to live, raise a family, and call home. At the same time, we must continue to evolve to meet the current and future needs of our community. This proposed downtown has been designed with everyone in mind. It represents an opportunity to create a vibrant, welcoming, and accessible gathering place that is currently missing from our city. a central space where residents can connect, support local businesses, and build community. Just as importantly, a thriving community depends on a a healthy local economy. The revenue generated by a revitalized downtown helps fund the very things that make Thousand Oaks such a special place for families, creates quality schools, exceptional parks, public services, and the nonprofit organizations that provide a safety net not just for those who who are in most need, but for everyone who calls Thousand Oaks home. Revitalizing this underutilized area helps ensure a stable long-term tax base that supports these priorities for generations to come. The project also expands housing opportunities, creating options that can help young people growing up in Thousand Oaks today afford to live and work in their hometown tomorrow. This this is an opportunity to invest in Thousand Oak's future while preserving the values and have that have made this such an extraordinary place to live. I respect I respectfully encourage your support. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Len. We appreciate it. Joel Price. >> Good evening, Mr. Mayor and council members. Uh, as a former council member and mayor of Thousand Oaks, I know firsthand the weight of the decisions before you and the pressure that often accompanies them. I also understand that leadership is not about preserving a community exactly as it was decades ago. It's about preparing it for the decades ahead. I'm here tonight in support of the downtown Thousand Oaks plan and its vision for a walkable, vibrant district that brings together housing, recreation, public gathering spaces, restaurants, and a host of other amenities. This is the kind of investment that can create a true heart for our community. A place where residents can gather, businesses can thrive, and where future generations will want to live, work, and spend their time. Change has historically come slow to Thousand Oaks. That caution has often served us very well. But there are moments when communities must embrace thoughtful change in order to remain strong and relevant. Bold leaders make bold decisions and the responsibility of a council member is not simply to manage the president but to build for the future. That does not mean abandoning our history. In fact, I believe this project presents an opportunity to honor the early residents, families, and businesses that helped shape Thousand Oaks. Through thoughtful design, public art, historical markers, and community engagement, we can preserve our story while creating our next chapter. I recognize that many longtime residents are uncomfortable with change and would pre prefer to turn back the hands of time. Their vers voices deserve respect and consideration. But the future of Thousand Oaks cannot be defined solely by what once was. It must all so be shaped into what can be. >> Thank you, Joel. Next up is Trevan H. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, members of city council. My name is Trevan. I'm a local business owner and resident here in Thousand Oaks. I'm here tonight to voice my strong support for the downtown project. As a small business owner, I see this project as an important investment in the long-term health of our local economy. Strong communities need foot traffic, energy, and a central place where people naturally come together. A walkable downtown gives residents and visitors places to gather, shop, dine, and support. The independent business that helps make Thousand Oak special. Small businesses are the heart of a city. We need local people. Uh we we hire local uh local people support schools and sports teams donate to community events and and build [clears throat] relationships with the families we serve. When more people uh spend time downtown, more dollars stay here in Thousand Oaks, helping local businesses grow and helping fund the essential services our city relies on. But the project is more than just a more than just business to me. It is personal. My wife and I are raising three young kids in this community. And when I think about the future of Thousand Oaks, I think about uh the kind of city they will grow up in. I want them to have a downtown uh where families can walk safely, grab dinner, attend events, shop locally, and feel connected uh uh to the place they call home. This project is not just about development. It is more about creating a true heart of our city. It honors what makes Thousand Oaks a great place uh for our small businesses, our families, and the future of Thousand Oaks. I respectfully urge you to vote yes. Thank you. >> Thank you, Trevan. Next up is Crystal Evans. >> Good evening, Mayor Taylor, council members, city staff. Thank you all for being here tonight. My name is Crystal Evans. I'm the owner of Cano Awards, a small business here in Thousand Oaks. I'm also a Cal Lutheran alumni and an active member of the local young professional community. I'm here tonight to express my strong support for the downtown project. Having grown up in the area, I always appreciated what makes Thousand Oaks special. We've done an incredible job preserving the character and quality of life that makes people want to live here. But if we want our city to thrive in the future, we have to balance preservation with thoughtful progress. As a small business owner, I understand a strong local economy doesn't happen by accident. It takes investment and intentional planning. A walkable downtown will create opportunities for local businesses, encourage people to spend their time and money here, and help strengthen the community that so many of us have invested in. I also work closely with the young professionals and I hear the same message all the time. They want a place to connect, gather, and build their future. If we want to retain local talent and keep our economy strong, we need to create a community where people can see themselves staying long term. We have so much talent coming out of places like Cal Lutheran and we want to retain that talent here. I believe this project is an investment in the future of Thousand Oaks and I respectfully ask for your support. Thank you guys. >> Thank you, Crystal. Next up is Ashley Rusco. Good evening, mayor, city council members, and city staff. My name is Ashley Orosco, and I'm a Newberry Park resident as well as a director for the KJO Recreation and Park District. First, I want to thank city council and city staff for being outstanding community partners. Uh the collaboration between the city and CRPD helps make Thousand Oaks the special place that it is. Uh and I especially want to thank the city for its partnership as we work together to plan for the future. That spirit of collaboration and long-term thinking is one of the reasons why Thousand Oaks continues to be such a great place to live. I also want to specially recognize assistant city manager Obar and the city team for the incredible amount of outreach, engagement, and thoughtful planning that has gone into the downtown visioning process. Tonight, however, I'm speaking simply as a Thousand Oaks resident, and I'm here to support the support of moving the vision forward for the downtown project. At its core, the conversation is about planning for the future of our city. This project represents an opportunity to bring renewed energy and vibrancy to the city of Thousand Oaks. Uh to create much neededed space for arts and cultural activities and continue making progress towards meeting our community's housing needs. As we know, strong communities make room for new neighbors while honoring those who help build them. Strong communities don't stand still. They grow, adapt, and thoughtfully plan for the future. This plan reflects years of public engagement, careful consideration, and a shared vision for the Thousand Oaks that remains vibrant, welcoming, and economically strong for generations to come. Thank you for your leadership, and thank you for your continued investment in the future of our city. >> Thank you, Ashley. The next five will be Eloise Yant, Devin Luke Carelli, Juliet Skidmore, Liberty Flame, and Tom Cohen. and Eloise is up first. Whenever you're ready, you can go ahead. [clears throat] >> Good evening everyone. My name is Eloise Yant and I'm here to voice my support for the development under review tonight. I moved from Atlanta, Georgia to Thousand Oaks nearly 5 years ago. I'm a chemical engineer and I came here to work on the design and construction of a facility that manufactures a life-saving drug therapy for children born with a rare genetic disorder. The opportunity to contribute to something that saves lives is what brought me all the way across the country, and it is one of the reasons I fell in love with this community. Thousand Oaks is a remarkable and unique place. It is peaceful, abundant in natural beauty, has a welcoming small town charm. It offers access to worldclass biotech innovation and career opportunities while still providing a deep sense of connection to nature and to one another. However, I believe that our city has the opportunity for innovation beyond biotech manufacturing. And in another, [clears throat] sorry, lost my spot. and in another um in another important way and how we create spaces that bring people together. While I deeply value the tranquility of Thousand Oaks, I also want more opportunities for connection and shared experiences. I want a more vibrant city center where I can gather with my family and friends, get to know my neighbors, and where residents of all ages can experience joy together. That's why I support the development under review this evening. To me, it represents thoughtful growth, not just for growth's sake, but growth that creates community. It creates a place for people to relax, celebrate life, and build relationships with each other. Like other young professionals here, sometimes I ask myself whether Thousand Oaks is where I want to build my future. Um, projects like this give me another reason to want to stay here and another reason to believe in the unique opportunities that Thousand Oaks has to offer. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next up is Devon Lucarelli. >> Good evening, everybody. Um, my name is Devon Larelli and I am an incoming freshman at Toio High School. I've lived in Thousand Oaks my entire life and I've always enjoyed getting involved in the community through perform through performing and help and helping others. When I think of the future of our downtown, I I imagine a place where my karate studio can perform and my band and my future band can perform. Also, I think about all the food drives, community events, and activities that could happen that could bring our community together. And yeah, [snorts] um to be honest, there are many places for teenagers to hang out, like the Thousand Oaks Mall where we can all shop and just hang out. When we were younger, there were many parks and playgrounds we would go to, but that doesn't interest many teenagers anymore. I think that the um downtown project would be would be good because everybody can hang out there and h and have fun and make new friends. I hope that we think of the future of our city and the decisions made today will shape the or will shape Thousand Oaks looks like in the future. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Devin. And next up is Juliet Skidmore. Blockbuster, Kodak, Toys R Us. At one point, these names dictated how we watched movies, captured memories, and shopped. They felt permanent. But in the world of innovation, standing still is how we move backwards. These companies refuse to change and were left behind. The same rule applies to communities. Tonight, we aren't talking about retail giants. We are talking about the future of Thousand Oaks. This renovation isn't about changing buildings. It's about creating a truly livable and walkable space for all of us. If we want thousand oaks to flourish for generations to come, we cannot afford to stand still. We must move forwards to grow. Right now, if you want to do something on the weekend, the options are limited. When my friends and I want to hang out, we are restricted by our town's current layout, which prioritizes parking lots and traffic over walkable, lively spaces people can gather and connect. By building mixeduse housing in downtown, we aren't creating more congestion. We are fixing it. Right now, people have to drive in from outside the city for work, packing our roads. But studies from the EPA show that when you mix housing with local businesses, you can cut daily driving and vehicle trips by up to 50%. When people can live, work, and shop in the same neighborhood, they leave their cars behind. That means that means cutting localized carbon emissions by linear a quarter. It creates a safer, more livable town and reduces pollution. Fewer cars means a massive step forward for our sustainability goals. It means cleaner air, a smaller carbon footprint, and a much safer environment for families and pedestrians to walk freely without constant traffic. But to make this vision a reality, we need to protect our community first. You don't need to have lived in Thousand Oaks for 50 years to have a say in the future of the city. I am 15 and I lived here my whole life, and I believe I should have a say in the future of where I live. Let's invest a sustainable, safe, and dynamic Thousand Oaks. Let's move forward together. Thank you. >> Thank you, Juliet. And next up is Liberty Flame. Good ne good evening council members. My name is Liberty Flame. I'm a teenager who has lived in Thousand Oaks my whole entire life. My family has lived in Ventura County for six generations and all of our voices matter. I support the downtown project because it would uh give teens and families more things to do right here in our community. A lot of people complain about teenagers hanging around the parking lots or riding ebikes, riding e ebikes where they're not supposed to. Have you met my mom? She complains a lot about ebike kids around the community. She yells, "Buckle your helmets. You're going to die." Maybe a maybe our problem is that we don't have enough spaces designed for my for my people that are my age to gather safely, walk around and attend events or spend time with my friends. This project would create space w where families, kids, and teens can come together and actually enjoy the city. It [snorts] would it would give us great demonstration instead of having to leave Thousand Oaks to find things to do. Thank you. My name is Liberty Flame and I hope this project goes in continuation. >> Thank you, Liberty. I didn't want to say the point about your mom. I'm glad you did. We hear about the ebikes a lot. Tough going. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, council members. I I just want to say thank you for bringing all the young people up in this last grouping. Um to be glad to be a part of that. [applause] I'm I'm Tom Cohen. I've I've lived here forever. Um I serve on the board of directors with the Greater Canal Valley Chamber of Commerce. Creating a town center, a gathering place has always been a dream of our leaders and founders of the city. The Jans Mall served that role for the first 20 years of my life. Here in Thousand Oaks, Canal Valley Days, a huge annual community event that drew seemingly everyone in town, moved from location to location until it found its current home and served this role for one week a year. The Civic Arts Plaza in 1994 uh gave us a hint of what a downtown might be, but it did not materialize because the vision was truly not baked yet. Well, now it has been. This is your opportunity tonight to make a game-changing decision like your predecessors before you did with the Oaks Mall, Dos Venus Ranch, Civic Arts Plaza, and many other projects. It took courage then and it takes courage now. Thousand Oaks has evolved in a positive way with thoughtful decisions, always involving the community. But we've changed because change was appropriate and necessary. Our progeny deserves change. Execution of the downtown plan will continue to the building of community that will attract and retain highwage jobs and innovative companies important for a healthy economy while maintaining public safety and pave streets. I support this plan. I hope you do, too. >> Thank you, Tom. I was going to say the kids got it done in 90 seconds. >> Um, all right. I'm going to call up the next five. Chris Bokert, Rain Davis, Holly Kraeski, Anita Stein, two, three, four, and Wendy McCloud Mcclaid. Um, and I'm just going to mention one more time, you guys are doing great. Thank you so much for uh helping. We're about halfway through, so we're making great progress. And Chris, whenever you're ready, you're up. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to express our feelings. My name is uh Chris. Uh I moved here in 88 and I've seen the traffic going up terribly uh especially on the 101. It's uh it's now really it takes time uh to to to drive there. And uh also I would like to have an explanation what we are seeing now that uh the retail industry is not uh doing very well because well they increase the minimum wage but with that the price of everything they sell in the store is going up too and people don't buy anymore. So well we have a problem here. We have several uh stores closing. Restaurant is the same thing. A lot of restaurant closing and you want to have more restaurant uh coming into this project. So, uh I would need to have an explanation there. And so, um well, I would like also to say apparently a lot of people are in favor of that. So, if it passes perhaps, well, it would be interesting to work a little bit on the aesthetic of the building. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Chris. What a lovely accent you have. >> Yeah. >> Uh, next up is Rain Davis. >> Rain might be gone. Holly. Okay. Good evening, Mayor Taylor and members of the council. Uh my name is Holly Kresevski and my family moved to Thousand Oaks in 1969. Uh and I learned something new tonight. Uh state funny math. I'd like to learn more about that. Uh at the last meeting I read a letter from former mayor Mad Schaefer and she expressed her concerns that the careful planning that was put into place all those years ago that created this beautiful city will be undone and this is the concern of the citizens too. Sevenstory buildings do not belong in the Cano Valley. This is not bougie Brentwood. Um, and I hope you will consider reducing the height and scaling the project down. And myself and what I'm reading on social media, I don't think that the majority of people are against the plan. It's just the height restrictions or lack of and uh just the size of the project. Um, and I realize these housing mandates are coming from the state and I would like to talk about the density bonus law. It really concerns me that if a developer designates a certain percentage of a project to affordable housing, he is granted the power to ignore local building ordinances and is granted the uh and that are set in place by the city such as height restrictions, parking requirements, and density. and basically your your authority is being handed over to the developers and that's really a a concern too. So I think the cities need to get together and fight the state on that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much Holly. Next up is Anita Stein. >> I would like to direct your attention to the screens. I'm going to be putting something actually Wendy's going to be putting something here for me. Okay. >> The right way. >> Um, I just Hi, my name is Anita Stein from Newberry Park. I'm here to remind you of why we voted for you. These are some examples of what we thought were shared value. Some of these were taken right from your own campaign promises. Al Adam will stand up to special interest who want to overdevelop Thousand Oaks. Thousand Oaks Boulevard spec specific plan threatens our small town quality of life. Al Adam will stand up to developers and powerful special interests that threaten our unique quality of life. Beautify Thousand Oaks. Don't overdevelop it. Fight over development and traffic it brings. I will be responsive to the desires of Thousand Oak citizens who have expressed clear opposition to the overdevelopment and recent opinion polls. This is for TAI. Ensuring our community is prepared for disaster. Support swift response recovery efforts. safeguard the small town charm that makes Thousand Oaks so special. >> Anita, I'm going to pause your time just so I don't chew into it. If you wouldn't mind, can you just address the total council as opposed to the individual would be my ask? >> Um, I'm sorry that this is what I presented. I mean, I I will get to everybody. [laughter] >> There's no evacuation plan on Thousand Oaks Boulevard. ambulances, fire trucks will be stuck in horrible traffic and will not be able to help anyone. No new hospital builds due to this massive project or I'd like to share some something with you. Um, I'd like to share with you how difficult it is to be seen at Los Walis. A loved one of mine had to wait six hours in line a long line of ambulance just to get into the hospital. He was 94. This is unacceptable. When I brought it up to city manager Akbar, who doesn't even live here, he told me that there would be no new hospital and was up to Los Robels to staff better. This is al there's also no pediatric ward. This is irresponsible to build more housing and promote to young families with no hospital to care for them. This is for David Newman. Density isn't the only or best answer to every housing question. Okay, I I this was for Mikey, but I don't I ran out of time. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Let's just take a Thank you for the jazz hands. Let's take a just a a quick reset. I know we all care. I know we all care. But what I'm asking for is just the the applause. I what what really what I'm trying to protect, I want everybody to speak. I want everybody to be comfortable speaking. That's what I'm trying to protect. We still have about 45 speakers and we're almost at 10 o'clock. So, you guys are doing great. Thank you so much. But that's what we're trying to protect. Uh Wendy Mloud, you're up. >> Yes. My name is Wendy Mloud. I am a Thousand Oaks home owner. I live near the the boulevard here. In lie of Jungle Land's 100th anniversary, I wanted to see if you guys would interject a um a Jungleand water fountain that is uh currently in possession of CRPD. It's been in a It's been in a It's been in the maintenance yard for years and I think it would be a great addition to our Jungle Land memorial here. Um because we don't have much. We just have a couple of plaques and and two walls concerning the downtown. Um so people are worried about this being disturbed with the remodel. Um, concerning downtown, the reason for sevenstory buildings just to cover an unsightly parking garage that should have never been here in the first place seems kind of strange. Um, the parking garage could be painted. The civic arts plaza was supposed to be built 2/3 underground to meet our height restrictions with uh, measure E. That's being ignored again. It was supposed to be Spanish Casa architect with earth tones. This is why there's public um mistrust with the city because of these things being ignored. Thousand Oaks does not need to develop housing to meet regional housing needs allocation numbers. The city has already met them for this cycle, which is every eight years. The city is only obligated to zone to ensure that number could be built if developers wanted to. My question for you guys is why can't this be a public vote? And in one of the slides, it said that the emergency plan was negligible. Do you guys know what that means? It's not good. Thank you. >> Thank you, Wendy. And we'll have a moment at the end for questions from staff. Next five are going to be Robin Marceli, Mary Rosito, Diane McCay, Bob Bushnell, and Janette Welling. and Rob. Yeah, Robin, whenever you're ready, you can start. Okay. >> My name is Robin Marcelli. I moved here uh from Glendale 20 years ago. My son went to school at Edgore High School. He spent hours of time in this theater and the one upstairs because he's a young actor and went to B Boston Boston University after he got the privilege of being here and in the arts and uh now he's back and he's working here in town and he wants to still do what he wants to do here. The reason this place is so great is because people kept it this way. People worked. They they talked. I mean, I've heard some really disrespectful thing things about older people here, and I don't know, you know, these are the people that maintain this. I'm not against a development, but more reasonable, not a sevenstory thing. You know, make it a beautiful area, a hotel, a smaller hotel, something more reasonable. Um, I'm I'm emotional because I love this place. I have a place here. I live in in Westlake Village. I live right above Tio Boulevard. We can't even get out of down Tio Boulevard to get to the post office some days. I live here every day and I go down that road and and tonight um I know I'm down to like nothing, but I just want to say that there's a lot of people who really care here and it's not an agism thing and it's not about the development. It's about doing mindful development that is beautiful and something we can really be proud of. >> The kids, I think it's great that they have a good place to be. I really do. But, you know, let's hear some respect for the people who are here and want a great place to live, too. Yeah. >> Because I'm not going anywhere and I'm 71. >> Amen. Yeah. >> And I'm not in bed and I won't be in bed till >> That's right. [laughter] Good job. >> So, thank you. >> You're welcome. appreciate your time. >> Thank you for being here. Uh Marie Rosoto, >> she's Okay, we're moving to Diane McKay. >> Good evening. I'll try and make this quick. Thank you, um, mayor and city council and staff. really thank you for all that you've done for the many years after many years of alternatives and finally landing on this project with so much community input that I thought was refreshing and I was really proud of it when I spoke at a planning um thing in Santa Barbara recently. Anyway, there seems to be hundreds of opinions and in the last few weeks maybe thousands of opinions. I'm in favor. Um but the reality is, you know, most of the people are home living their lives and they are depending on you to do the right thing. city staff, city council, and make the decisions for smart growth that has kept Thousand Oaks one of the nicest, safest, wonderful places to live. The city adopted an amended general plan, and this seems to fall within the conversations around that plan. On behalf of my four adult children that always piece out about five because there's nothing to do here, and they go back down to West Hollywood or North Hollywood where they live because there is no place to hang out and go walk from place to place. And I miss them. I wish they would live closer. So on behalf of them, we can still be true to beautiful spark growth, beautiful views, hiking trees, and a little more room for some people to work and live. Thanks. Thank you, Diane. Next is Bob Bushnell. >> Good evening, mayor, city council members, and city staff. My name is Bob Bushnell. Uh I'm a 40-year resident of Newbury Park. Uh, and I'd like to address really just one issue tonight. Water. The city tells us that thou Thousand Oaks has sufficient water supplies through 2045 and that this project will not negatively impact that projection. But let's look at the facts. One of the primary water sources is Northern California snowpack. This water or this winter brought near normal precipitation. Yet much of it fell as rain instead of snow and could not be collected. As a result, our statewide reservoir capacity is only at 65%. Our other major source is the Colorado River. Colorado River serves seven states, two countries, 30 tribal nations, 40 million Americans, and 5 million acres of farmland. Yet, the river system is only about 36% full. And the federal federal officials continue discussing additional water delivery reductions of 40% for California, Arizona, and Nevada. So, I have a simple question. If one of our primary water sources is essentially gone for the year and the other is barely one-third full and facing potential future cutbacks, how can anyone guarantee adequate water supplies through 2045? No one can predict future rainfall, snowpack, droughts, wildfires, or Colorado River allocations over the next 20 years. Who would have predicted the the level four water restrictions placed on us by this council in May of 2022? no one. Yet, we are being asked to accept a seven-story hotel, sevenstory apartment building, and significant additional development based on those assumptions. So, before approving this project, I would urge the council to ask whether those qu whether that confidence is truly justified. I don't think it is, but even better, as everybody as as many have suggested tonight, let's put this whole project to a vote. >> Thank you, Bob. Uh, next up is Janette Welling. >> Tootb um Janette Welling, Thousand Oaks. We um we all expect change progress, but we also value diligent oversight promised by our general plan. So, let's discuss the EIR contradictions to this. Um this project intentionally creates significant and unavoidable damage to our biological and historical resources. The EIR is fundamentally deficient in a number urban canopy. The destruction of the 53 legacy trees is a permanent loss. Even with all proposed mitigation measures applied, the er e admits this damage is significant and unavoidable. This is a clear indicator that the project cannot meet standard environmental thresholds for preservation. Air quality. The sheer volume of localized construction emissions will exceed regional thresholds. Despite the use of electric equipment or dust suppressants, the IR confirms these emissions remain significant. Noise. The report discloses both construction and long-term operational noise from the outdoor amphitheater will exceed limits established by Thousand Oaks Municipal Code. Um, this but offers no solution because you can't build a soundwall high enough to block the impacts from reaching our homes. These are not minor omissions, evidence that the project fails to meet the basic environmental requirements. The EIR alliance on bare conclusions rather than datadriven analysis renders this document legally insufficient for project approval. The AI admits that impact remains significant and unavoidable to site all mitigation. This is a formal admission that the project violates standard environmental thresholds. How can you justify moving forward when the AR itself provides the uh project is fundamentally incompatible? Anyway, I urge the council to recognize when the project requires a wholesale abandonment of of your own thresholds that u it's the only respon responsible choice is to deny it. And I also hope that you uh acknowledge the over 1900 petition signatures that oppose this project that was handd delivered today. >> Thank you, Janette. And then uh next four is going to be Rudy Elias, Michelle Reebeling, Edgar Elias, Lisa Baka, and Janine Sullivan. >> Mikey. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Did I skip you? >> Rudy, >> I heard of Baja. >> It might have been. I thought I heard my name in >> Bob Bush now. >> No, no, I heard Bob. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um, I'll peek. Forgive me, Bob. Let's get to you quickly. >> So, now Rudy, whenever you're ready, you can take the mic and then before you begin, sorry, is it uh Bob Learner? Bob Learner or No. Okay, shoot. I don't see you yet. We We'll get there. My name is Rudy Elias and I am a resident of Thousand Oaks and I strongly oppose the downtown project. During the June 5th city council meeting, it was acknowledged that the impact of increased population and traffic on existing evacuation route has not been analyzed. Furthermore, the city currently lacks an updated mass evacuation annex that complies with federal and state guideline. Previous disasters such as 2018 Woolsey and Hillfire demonstrated the vulnerability of our infrastructure. When the 23118 and southbound 101 freeway were closed, the only available route for the 124,000 residents was the northbound 101. The concent the factors that go into gridlocks includes the concentration of residents near the proposed site relying on limited number of surface streets. Regional competition for freeway access during a mass evacuation. Existing bottlenecks at the more park and Camaro grades where theoretically capacity is significantly reduced by merging disabled vehicles and emergency condition. The city has not yet developed an independent standalone evacuation plan integrated with the 2025 Ventura County Operational Area Emergency Operation Plan that adequately accounts for more Park Sei Valley, Wesley Village, Agora, and Newberry Park. In the light of the tragic lessons learned from the Paradise, Lahina, and Palisade fire, it is imperative that we do not move forward with projects that place further strain on public safety resources and risk the loss of life and property. Minimum standard for evacuation plans are insufficient for the safety of Thousand Oaks residents. >> Rudy, thank you so much. Uh, next up is Michelle Reeing. I'm a little taller. I'm Michelle Ree. As a resident of Thousand Oaks, am opposed to the downtown project because of the degrading of public safety. City governments must maintain comprehensive emergency plans, including a mass evacuation annex in compliance with federal and state emergency management laws. These laws state local jurisdictions must evaluate the jurisdictional capability to protect all residents under uh various emergency scenarios. The current Ventura operational emergency plan did not list any Thousand Oaks participation in that plan. Our public safety personnel resources and transportation per resident ratios currently fall far under the national average. Industry guidelines is 1.5 to 1.8 eight firefighters per thousand residents. Many California cities operate 0.6 to 1.0 due to budgets. Daily staffing at the city's six active fire stations typically provides onduty coverage of 17 to 20. Thousand Oak's ratio is 0.16 far under acceptable ratio guidelines. The FBI's uniform crime reporting program records baseline statistical averages for which observe nationwide trends in community policing. The ratio of sworn officers is 2.4. 4 per thousand residents. The city has 93 officers assigned to this area. Using this nationwide data, the city should have approximately 298. The city sits 31% under the national average. We are at risk of a catastrophic wildfire, earthquake, a flood event, a windstorm, and a pandemic. Is it acceptable to place additional strain on fire, police, emergency services, shelters, and transportation resources by adding more people under this destination city concept? I urge council to vote no on this project. >> Thank you, Michelle. And then next up is going to be Edgar Elias. >> He left. >> He left. Uh, next up will be Lisa Baka. >> Oh, go ahead. Yeah, please. >> Oh, wait. No. Oh, I'm sorry. We can't allow that. >> But someone else did. Someone else read for >> city attorney. >> Our process is we only allow a person to speak once. We're not allowed to reallocate it to somebody else. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Sorry about that, Rudy. Um, next up will be Janine Sullivan. >> Yes. Yes. If somebody else would like to read it, you can just go. Yeah. >> Good evening, council members. Lisa Baka. I am a patron of the charming downtown shops and restaurants. I oppose the development project due to ethical conflicts of interest with the city of Thousand Oaks Mayor Mickey Taylor. Mayor Taylor will preside over the council's meeting where the final vote is taken. The California Public Reform Act has four main areas which conflict of interest may come up for public officials. The Taylor for City Council 2024 campaign statements found on the city clerk's website has four campaign donations that create the appearance of conflict of interest. >> Hold on. >> To tell you the truth, will you pause the time, please? >> Ask that you address the council as a whole, >> not one individual. >> Mr. Adams, I appreciate that. What I'm going to ask I'm okay for me personally, the >> these are the these are my public comments. You can't interrupt me. Well, I'm going to pause your time so that you're not taking what I'm going to say. >> Your time. >> I don't mind if you address me personally. >> I I'm This is all on your city clerk website. I'm stating facts. I have them documented and I will leave a copy with your city clerk. >> That's totally fair. >> Yeah. I don't know why I'm interrupted. >> Well, what Mr. Adams is saying is for our council norm, it's you address the council. If you want to talk to me personally, you totally >> You as mayor are the chair of the committee. So, I'm addressing you. My comments are addressing you as the chair of this process tonight. >> Okay, that's fair. Go ahead. >> Can I have my time respond? >> Yes, you can. 100%. >> We froze it at a minute. >> Okay. [sighs and gasps] The the Taylor for City Council 2024 campaign statements has four donations that create the appearance of the conflict of interest under the current master plan process going forward. These include donations from lawyers title, Maril Property, Commune Capital. In the form 497 filed by Mayor Taylor on September 6, 2022, there's a $10,000 donation. He as president of the real estate firm Commune Capital should have uh been a flag. On Tuesday, June 17th, the chamber hosted a sponsored event where there are currently listed 60 members under the real estate section. Again, real estate developer there. By virtue of Mayor Taylor having received both real estate 2022 campaign contributions, he has a perceived and actual disqualifying interest. As the chair of this body, Mayor Taylor, prior to the consideration of the matter at the very first public meeting, should have publicly identified the financial interests, recused himself, and left the room while the discussion was taking place. The entire master plan process has been tainted. The residents of Thousand Oaks should be given a vote to decide how they want to spend their millions of taxpayer dollars. Thank you very much. [applause] >> Um, did we call Katherine Aon yet? >> No. Okay. Next five is going to be Cath. Next five will be Katherine Aon, Anniosia, Lou Maggas, Gary Hotung, and Rob Learner. >> Can I begin? Yes, you may. Mikey T, Mayor Taylor, and members of the council, thank you for holding this event this evening. I have strong concerns about this downtown project for three reasons. namely why not a vote? That would be my primary concern. I have heard tonight many concerns about congestion and emergencies. I also note that there are local concerns that seem to be set aside by state mandates allow higher density than many residents feel safe or interested in having. This is not about art versus um the the needs of older people in our community. This has nothing to do with that. Um, I also want to note that I appreciate council member David Newman's mention of home ownership in condominiums being part of a project. I would be very interested to see if a project of this kind could include the possibility of home ownership for young families wanting to begin a life in our area and not just apartments as described in this plan. Thank you. Um, did I call to up here and you didn't speak? >> I never got a chance. >> I'm so sorry. What was your name? called my name, but someone else took >> I am so sorry. What was your name? >> Janine Sullivan. >> Janine Sullivan. I am sorry. >> That's okay. >> Okay, go ahead. Is there anybody else I did that to? >> Shoot. Thank you. >> It's fine. >> Lot of names. >> Yeah. Uh thank you again for um letting me speak tonight. Um my biggest problem is I really am strongly opposed to this development in the downtown project. I have been a resident here since 1980. Um, it has been a great community for place for families and kids to hang out. Um, we do have the Thousand Oaks Mall, which was a good spot to go. It no longer is because all the stores are closing. Uh, we also have the Jans Marketplace. We also have the Lakes, which has not really worked either. So, I'm really wondering how this whole project is going to work. It says to bring in people to walk in the community. We have lots of places to walk. Um when you talk about um transformation of indooroutdoor areas, I don't quite see how a hotel is going to make that kind of a difference. I don't see how um having extra uh lowincome housing is going to help um it's not certainly not going to help any um any youngster to be able to afford a home in Thousand Oaks. And I'm just going to say please vote no. >> Thank you. >> And could you take the see what was your name? >> Yeah. >> Rob Learner. >> Rob. Oh, okay. So I think you're part of the five I did I call anybody up and they didn't speak. >> So it was Lisa, Michelle, Edgar, Rudy, and Janine, and Katherine. Did all five of those speak? Edgar did it. Okay. Uh Rob Learner is Gary as well. >> Okay. >> I I I reversed you, but go ahead, Rob. >> Okay. Uh just would like to seek your permission to yield my time to Janette. Is that possible? >> We're not allowed to yield time. >> Okay. >> Sorry. >> So, uh because she was not finished with what she had to say, but um everybody's been quite serious here today and I just I can't see it. Uh I think after having gone to uh Everybody been to New York? Gone a trip to New York? So, I was there last September and I loved it. I mean, uh, I thought it was a great, um, we went to the Trader Joe's, like we have a Trader Joe's here, and, uh, the people that were buying objects and, you know, buying merchandise waited in a line that took probably 50 to 60 minutes. I took a nice video of it. It went entirely around three of the walls of the perimeter of the interior of the store at a Trader Joe's at 72nd and Broadway. I think we should do that here. I think it's an opportunity for us to get to know our neighbors. We can do it in traffic jams on the street on to0. We can do it while waiting in line at Sam's for gas. That the line that comes out into the street already. Trader Joe's will be like that. We can get to know our neighbors. We can we can integrate with our neighbors. We can get to know them. We can also I think it's wonderful that um these kids I think 92% I took a note here 92% of the individuals that supported this project said use the word vibrant and I think that's wonderful because kids today they are so vibrant they're on their phones all the time interacting with other people when they're not they're teaching us and any 15year-olds here that drive an ebike to show us how to weave through traffic. Most of the time, I'll tell you, they don't hit anybody. Okay, there's that one guy down south in Long Beach that they killed, but other than that, >> next time >> there would be an opportunity for us to get to know each other as we're I'm done. >> Next time, we're going to hire you to start this thing off as the comedic relief. >> I think I have some ideas. I think while we're sitting in traffic, we can also have like a water balloon fight. Why not? >> I appreciate it so much. I want to be mindful of everybody's time, but thank you. >> Um, okay. I'm a little bit out of order, so forgive me. Has Ann spoken yet? Anniosia, is she still here? Okay. And then Lou, Lou Mags, you want to take you want to speak next? And then Gary, you'll go after Lou. >> Yeah. My name is Lou Mages. Uh, you haven't addressed the seven stories. This seems to be the sticking point here and you might reconsider. I mean, I don't think this is ready for a vote tonight because of what you hear. And also I thought it was really relevant that uh the young man here was talking about the view from the freeway. You couldn't see it. Well, what about the view from Thousand Oaks Boulevard? You start with the gardens on this side and on this side you have a cliff and beyond the cliff you have a 90 foot canyon. This doesn't make sense. the height is you you can you can tell. I don't understand because you re you referred to the general plan and you said, "Well, we're going to make some adjustments to the general plan and make this thing work." Well, the general plan was not voted by the people. And I think this project should be voted by the people. That's all I have to say. >> Thank you, Lou. Next up is Gary Hartung. >> I think that four stories is enough and those four stories should be completely for middle and low income people. We don't need any more restaurants. The one that's right outside the door here is plenty. I can't afford to eat there to begin with. Last of all, I'm 74 years old. I'm getting tired. In the future, please let us old people speak first. Thank you. [applause] I'm gonna I'm gonna let the clap go for that one. Nice one, Gary. Um, all right. Next five is going to be Brattoni Forest, Pamela Forest, Alicia Wilson, William Maple, and Jason Kemer. Good evening. My name is Britney Forest. I grew up in the Cano Valley, graduated from Westlake High School, and a few years ago, I was fortunate to return to Thousand Oaks. It's also a community I hope to stay in and raise my own family in someday. I understand the need for housing and I support thoughtful growth. I also understand the affordability challenges many residents and local businesses face. While I am fortunate to be a homeowner, I know many people who grew up here can no longer afford to stay or return. I also think it's important to look at this project in the context of the broader growth already happening throughout Thousand Oaks. Projects such as Tio Ranch, Oakwell, and the Sanctuary are already reshaping our community. So, I believe it's reasonable to consider the cumulative impact of these changes rather than viewing each project in isolation. My concern is not whether we grow, but what we may lose along the way. When I think of Thousand Oaks, I think of open space, oak trees, mountain views, western and equestrian roots, and the small town feel that sets us apart. This project includes taller buildings, the potential loss of older structures tied to our history, and a scale of development that feels very different from the Thousand Oaks many of us grew up with. So, I want to ask the council, residents, and everyone who cares about this community. What do we want Thousand Oaks to become? Will these changes create a sustainable future while still preserving the character, history, and sense of place that make this city unique? >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Britney. Next up is Pamela Forest. >> Pamela Forest is not here. Alicia Wilson. >> I'd like to thank the council and everyone who presented today because it was very informative for me as a person who literally lives one block away from here. For some people, this is a project about money and whether or not we can have interesting spaces. For others, it's a place for their personal opposition as hobby and rather to be right instead of being educated. I will live at ground zero of the noise, pollution and trouble that is used to make this public space and I still wholeheartedly support it. where I lived in Oxnard where I grew up, our city council was hamstrung by nimbies who for 40 years told the city they could not do open space. They couldn't do growth and as a result we have broken streets and pockmarked buildings and it's a place that I sadly no longer recognize. The city council must have the courage to do what is necessary to move this country to move this city forward. There is a biblical principle for such a time as this. You have been placed here for a reason. I hope you will have the courage to continue what we know to be necessary to make the crown jewel of Ventura County Thousand Oaks the city it deserves to be. And I hope you will have the courage to do what's right today. >> Thank you, Alicia. And next up is William Maple. >> William Maple of Newberry Park. Members of the council, Mayor Taylor. This is the tale of two city halls. 57 years ago, a young city set out to create a permanent city hall, something that represented the culture, goals, and aspirations of the community that they served. The project was awarded to a relatively unknown architect, Robert Huvener, because it met and exceeded three different goals. One was stewardship. The budget was a million dollars. That's about 9 million today. It was the people's funds and they want to spend it wisely. The land was donated by the Jance family for free, specifically for public use. Number two, the viewshed. The building would not obscure or distract from the surrounding natural landscape. Number three, maintain open space. Hoover create a unus unique design that preserves 70% of the natural landscape and most of the oak trees by uniquely placing parking on the roof. The resulting building was featured on the cover of 1974 architectural record and is now our 10th landmark uh city of Thousand Oaks. Thank God CRPD purchased the site and we will hopefully see it preserved from city development for the next 30 years. Compared this success with our current civic center, then contrast it with the enormous expansion planned tonight. Please vote no on this project. Thank you. >> Thank you, William. And next up is Jason Kemer. >> Thank you, mayor and council members. Um, I've lived here since 77. Moved here when I was seven and uh, grew up, you know, went to Westlake Elementary, Kina, Westlake High, and, you know, back in those days there wasn't much to do here, but we found a way to do stuff. Maybe we got in a little bit of a of trouble, but we don't need these safe spaces and all this stuff and and a community center. I'm all I'm totally fine with the downtown, but I have to tell you what triggered me, and I've never been to one of these things before. I I heard there was a plan to revitalize it because this the city center here, the the uh civics art plaza has never really had that many great acts. It's, you know, kind of kind of boring. Um the the lakes the lakes here has been a total failure. Every place there's been mixed use in town really hasn't worked out very well. And so I had some hope, but then I saw this video and oh my god, the thing was a monstrosity. I couldn't believe that they're going to plop this right in the middle of our town, you know, on the old Canal School Road. That's going to be a nightmare. They're building 420 homes up at the old Kmart where I actually worked when I was a teenager. And I just can't imagine the amount of traffic that's going to be in this area. I'm not opposed to having a a downtown. I live pretty close to Tarantula, so I can walk there. That's great. What's been happening organically with those two apartment buildings, I'm fine with that. That kind of scale is fine. But I don't see where 39 affordable apartments is going to make one dent in the the cost of living in this house. And what what do we really mean by affordable? Is it going to be 3,000 instead of 3500? You know, I mean, there are so many other places there are so many other places in this town to build apartments. You know, do something scaled down. We don't need this monstrosity. >> Jason, thank you. Uh, next five are going to be Josh Gray, John Phillip Gat Jr., Bob Abgar, and Kevin Mitchell. Josh, whenever you're ready, you can start. Good evening, mayor, city council, city staff. My name is Josh Gray. As director of operations of the Cano Valley Tourism Improvement District, I analyze the hospitality data from our area weekly year round for all Thousand Oaks hotels. I'm here to ground tonight's discussion in actual industry metrics. The Thousand Oaks Hotel economy is a quiet powerhouse, generating about $50 million annually. In 2025, our local hotels maintained a 68.4% average occupancy rate, outperforming both state and national averages while commanding the highest average daily rate in the region at over $162 per night. When high occupancy pairs with climbing room rates, it reveals a clear supply side issue. We haven't had a uh we haven't added a new hotel here since 2009. To clear up any misinformation, 100% occupancy in a hotel is not an industry standard. You don't look at an empty Dodger Stadium parking lot in January and claim that baseball is failing. What matters is that the law is packed during the season. Our hotels are thriving when it matters most. Last month, running at an 85.3% occupancy on weekends. Pipeline projects at Timber School and Jans are extended stay and they do not fill the demand for a boutique walkable downtown hotel. Finally, on a personal note, I'm 33 years old, grew up in the region, graduated from Caloo, and I can count on a single hand the number of people I went to school with who can still afford to live here. Thank you. Please vote yes. >> Thank you, Josh. Uh, next up is John. >> Good evening again. Meeting places are fun, but this particular meeting place is kind of big and uh it's kind of overwhelming. Um it's a precedence that's going to set for other projects. Um, and if you look at the general plan update that was approved that y'all signed up on last two years ago, and if you look at all of Teio Boulevard and everywhere there's mixed use and the zoning was changed for similar projects like this and if you add up all those spaces, it's and they're similar to what is going to be here or what's, you know, at Rancho and Hillrest. store at Hampshire. That's a lot because so it's not going to stop this this one project. It's a good size project and I would prefer it had more like a Spanish style and maybe about half the size. That would be cool. I think if you did that it would be like Santa Barbara. That would be sweet. But and like I said, make the height I think should be like half what you got. You know, three stories maybe. But um consider the other places the infrastructure is going to have to be increased and I don't want my taxes to have to pay for all that or my increased utility rates because of all these other projects. Anyway, God bless you guys. >> Thank you, John. And then next up is Philip Gat Jr. do my best. >> Council members, mayor, good evening. My name is Philip Gch Jr. My father, Philip B. Gad, served this city for over 35 years as both city planner and city manager. He passed away during CO, so he could not be here tonight. I am doing my best to help convey what I believe would be his response to this project. My father grew up in Woodland Hills and was determined to prevent Thousand Oaks in the Cano Valley from becoming the San Fernando Valley 2.0. This is his copy of the original development plan his department published in 1970. His department did not simply impose a vision on the public. They canvased the community and asked residents what they wanted. They treated the city as a public They treated city planning as a public trust. This is not what I see happening with this project. For a proposal this large, one that would permanently change the character of this city, the outreach to the general community has been anemic at best. This feels more like a communitydriven This feels less like a communitydriven plan and more like something being forced upon the citizens. And if the answer is we did not have to put it to a vote, that is not good enough. Just because you can move forward without a referendum through bureaucratic maneuvering does not mean that it should. It is one thing when a developer is asking for variances outside the parameters of acceptable city restrictions. It's an entirely different set of standards when it comes to the city itself. >> As Los Angeles and San Fernando Valley have devolved into dystopic crime and homeless ridden cesspools. The Cano Valley and Toio >> If you can, can you wrap it up because time is out? >> Yeah. Okay. The Cano Valley and Teio has become our sanctuary city. Father's Day just passed and in honor of my father who fought thoughtfully and deliberately to preserve the character of this city, I'm asking for three things. First, halt forward movement on this project. Two, conduct thorough, transparent, and citywide outreach asking residents what they actually want. Third, if the city still chooses to move forward, put it to a referendum and let the citizens vote. This city's future should not be decided without the people. >> I got to be respectful of everyone else's time that they got. Thank you. [applause] >> Next up is Bob Abgar. >> I'm Abgar. Apptaker, excuse me. >> And okay, we got to Bob. Thank you for being patient. >> Thank you, Bob Appaker. And I promise I wasn't trying to jump the line earlier. Um, I'm a resident of To. Um, I walked here tonight from my home in Cano Oaks and as a frequent walker, um, I support the downtown plan which I think will be a good thing for walkability in downtown Thousand Oaks. Um, I believe the I support the downtown plan. I believe that it will bring much needed vitality and energy to downtown and will provide a center of gravity to a very long Thousand Oaks Boulevard. More specifically, I I agree with the housing element. I believe we need more housing and I applaud the inclusion of 39 affordable units. I believe that our younger population needs affordable places to live. I believe that the mixeduse aspect of this development will help mitigate impacts to traffic. I'm okay with the hotel development. I believe that 142 units is small comparatively and I believe that it will be mutually beneficial with the retail and restaurant amenities. The heights do not bother me in this location in the context of the auditoriums and the 101 uh freeway nearby. I support the uh 40 I believe it's 40,000 47,000 square feet of commercial space. And just for a little bit of context, the Oaks Mall is 1.2 million square ft of space. >> Thank you, Bob. We appreciate it. Next up is Kevin Mitchell. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Wow. Taking quite a while. I had black hair when I started here tonight. >> [laughter] >> I moved to this I moved to Thousand Oaks. I grew up in Old Agora when it was New Agora. I moved to Thousand Oaks when my wife and I got married and we came out here because we had horses. We had we could find horse property. This town had a certain charm, character, western lifestyle that a lot of people have moved out here, bought things that they could barely afford so that they could live here. It was a sanctuary. Probably everybody in this audience has driven thousands of hours just so they can come back to this sanctuary that we have here. I'm concerned about the charm and what retaining our character. I mean, you look at Santa Barbara, people are driving up to Santa Barbara because it has continued charm and style. We're losing that. I'm against this this project simply because I think it's not consistent with the charm and the character of of this community. I think that there's other means. I think, you know, just an example is I love the theater. I love the arts, but what the finished product was with the RA with a radiator grill on the side of it that I have to pass by every day, I hate that. So, it's more of Yes, it's a good concept, but I don't think it's this concept. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. And as uh as uh Thank you. Yeah, I'm looking now at the camera. I'm getting a little gray on the side of this meeting also. Uh, next up, the next five is going to be Lisa Dalo, Larry Turner, Melinda, Rick Principy, and Cynthia Olri. Okay, I'm only seeing one coming down. What was What was your name? >> Melinda. >> Okay, if um no one else is joining, I'm gonna start skipping down the list. Melinda, why don't you take the um podium and then we will call down Did we call Cynthia L? We did. John Christ Swanson, Nate Swanson, Andrea Jansen, and Clint White. >> First, do you want me to start? >> If you want to go first, you can. if you would like somebody else go first. >> I'm up here on whatever. >> Yeah, you can start whenever you're ready. >> Okay. So, [clears throat] um my name is Melinda. Uh I moved here. Well, thank you all. >> Melinda, we Yes. Perfect. Number one, thanks for letting me be here. Did not plan on being down here. Um I saw something about you and block parties and that's what sort of got me like, whoa, this does not look like a block party. So, uh, that was my main thing for being here. I moved here in 1986 from Woodland Hills, San Fran Valley to raise my family. So, that was quite a while ago. And, uh, I'm nervous because I was not planning on doing this. So, I just have this stuff here. Okay. So, >> you're doing great. Don't >> Here I go. All right. Uh I oppose the proposed de uh downtown sorry Thousand Oaks project at what is being presented. I think it scaled down from what we just heard from the gentleman that just left. I like that. I'm sure people that I've talked to do think it's it's a good idea, but it needs to be scaled down. Okay. Affordable housing is not simply about adding more units. It is about who can realistically qualify and whether those units serve the residents who need them most. Many income restricted housing programs defined lowincome households based on a percentage of area median income uh commonly ranging from approximately 50 to 80% of the area median income. >> Linda, I'm going to give you another 30 seconds just because we kind of >> Thank you. Yeah, I sort of like it. Okay. Anyways, um uh before what I was boy that went quick. Before approving more largescale development areas, I think we need to recognize the housing supply that already exists. Thousand Oaks Moore Park Semi Valley already have approximately 32 to 33,000 rental housing units. Okay, so that's a lot. Is that my 30 seconds? >> You 20 left. >> Pardon me. >> 20 left. [laughter] Keep going. >> Okay. All right. So, uh, we should also consider the existing community destinations that serve residents and students today. Places such as the Oaks Mall, Jan's Marketplace, the Lakes, uh, at the Thousand Oaks have struggled with changing retail patterns and economic challenges. Creating another large-scale project does not guarantee success and could face many of the same issues. Thank you very much. I sort of like was a combined thing. >> Thank you, Melinda. >> Thanks. Okay, next up is going to be John Christ Swanson. Oh, did Rick end up coming? I called Rick Rensby, but I didn't see somebody come down. I skipped some people just cuz I called them and they didn't come down. Uh, John, you're up. All right. Uh, my name is Chris Swanson. Thank you for saying my whole name. I wasn't sure if I had up my legal name on there or not. I'm a high school social studies teacher. And so, as someone who's responsible for teaching young people, who are pretty darn good, by the way, about representative democracy, I appreciate this chance to participate in that. And especially without your service, that wouldn't none of that would be possible. We need representatives in our representative democracy. So, thank you for that. I moved here at the age of two in 1969 into a house in the Greenidge tract that just five years earlier had been farmland in the Norwegian dry car dry crop farming colony. There's a reference I haven't heard up here yet. Um, it's the reason we have so many Olsen and Pisons and all of that. Our house was uh only built because the city founders at the time had the wisdom to look forward. Many of the people who moved here alongside us did their best to build thriving civic institutions. And as someone who grew up here, I really, really benefited from a wonderful church community, from very strong public schools, and from civic organizations like youth sports organizations and scouting troops and all of those kinds of things. So, it was a real gift when my wife and I were lucky enough upon graduating from Cal Lutheran and getting married to buy a house here and raise our own three sons. You're about to hear from the youngest in just a second. Um, it was a gift to be able to join and support many of those same organizations that had helped raise me. Unfortunately, recent demographic trends mean these civic institutions are struggling to stay viable and afloat. And in the face of that existential challenge, I am very grateful for city leaders who will continue to look forward. Thank you. >> You Thank you, Ka. >> Yes. >> Uh uh next up is Nate Swanson. >> Is he your oldest? >> Youngest. >> Youngest. Here we go. All right, Nate, you're up. >> Good evening. My name is Nate Swanson. I was born and raised in Thousand Oaks and I'm a double graduate from California Lutheran University. In my time at CLU, I earned my BA in political science, my teaching credential, and my masters of education. In my research, I routinely use the theory of utilitarianism, which has been applied to community development for centuries. This theory boils down to one main principle. It is the role of government or institution to create the greatest happiness for the greatest amount of people. When I see this proposed downtown project, I see this theory being applied. I see the opportunities for people not only to live in Thousand Oaks, something that can be especially hard for young people like myself to do. But I see opportunities for people to feel alive. I understand the sentiments of folks who have urged against the growth in this city. However, I must say if these sentiments continue and the city fails to pursue that greatest happiness, we will not only fail to grow, we will decline and be left in the past. Times change, people change, and it is the fundamental utilitarian role of the government to suit the needs and desires to fit that change. This downtown project will allow people to access their greatest happiness in Thousand Oaks for decades to come. And in a time when I see so many small cities like Thousand Oaks opt to put in data centers and places that will take away from public space and community gathering, I'm so happy to see the city government at least consider an opportunity for people to ga gather together and use their free time to connect. Thank you. >> Thank you, Nate. Next up is Andrea Ponttoelli Jansen. Good evening, uh, mayor and council members. Appreciate the opportunity to speak. Um, I'm just gonna It's a long night. Uh, I've been a resident here for 56 years. We came here in 1970. My family's been here, uh, even longer. The reality of it is that nobody wants to acknowledge is really the truth. Those of us that have been here for almost 60 years, we've seen the change. We've seen the change. You can't deny it. When we say we don't want this area to become the San Frernando Valley, congratulations to all of you and to all of your predecessors because you turned it into the San Frernando Valley. You may not want to report it. You may not want to acknowledge it. Um, what comes with projects like this, the defunct lakes, the Kmart's disaster, etc., etc., etc. Uh, shout out to Scott Horn. Um, or uh, look, we have crime, we have homelessness, we have transients. Every day look, it's all there. You're creating something that shouldn't be created. In the process, nobody was concerned about our children when you were driving out the bowling alley, driving out the ice skating rink, driving out the roller skating rinks, or anything like that. You weren't concerned with our children. My husband and I own a business here. Our children are in that income above a hundred but under 150,000. Our children can't afford to buy homes here. You're talking about affordable housing for another demographic to come in. That's really what we're talking about. You're pushing all of us out. You're pushing our children out. We haven't had an opportunity to raise my grandchildren and my children in a beautiful, beautiful valley. I rode horses here, motorcycles here, bicycles here. >> So, my vote is no. I know. >> Thank you. I hate to cut you off. I know. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> Thank you. [applause] All right. Next up is >> We got to get a little out before the party comes. Uh Clint White is next. Hello. 90 seconds. My god. Um, I thought this is worse than the DMV, by the way. Anyways, my whole comment is, you know, everybody wants growth. There's everything's good and everything's that's all great, but like a lot of these people have mentioned tonight, you need to take into consideration of the height that makes our county and our city perfect. Um, affordable housing. It's never going to naturally work everywhere because this is a place where people who have money have come here and they work the grindstoneone. My family, I've been here since 1963, so I'm the oldest person and the longest one that's been here. I've seen Thousand Oaks Change. Most of it's been for the better. Um, I think it this housing, this new development is good, but like everybody else has said, you need to rethink it. Let's keep our values where they need to be. Bring the hype level down. Um, affordable housing and a and a uh hotel. Come on, talk to Westlake in. See what they think about having another hotel here. Why don't we improve our home businesses that we see here? utilize spaces that aren't being used, warehouses, other cities, you know, other u businesses that are just completely vacant and they want to make a whole new open plan that it's not going to work. I'm sorry. I think it's great that you guys are trying, but you need to rethink. Plain and simple. >> Good work keeping that in 90 seconds, Clint. [applause] >> Great work. Uh, next up we're going to have Lauren Lurch, Chris Cold, Coldy or Cold, Mary Sullivan, Nan Young, and Carl Culvin back. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, city council members, and city staff. My name is Lauren Lurch and I've owned and operated a retail spot here on Toio Boulevard for the past eight years in counting. As a small business owner, I feel this project would help boost the economics of our city. It'll increase jobs and provide housing, both which are very needed. I have followed the project for the past couple years, and each presentation, I've been consistently impressed by the small changes and details based on community feedback. So whether you are for or against this project, your constructive feedback is important and has helped shape to what it looks like today. When I see the project, I see community. A place where families can gather, enjoy a picnic and open space, enjoy live music at the outdoor amphitheater. A place that businesses can gather, serve as a space for street fairs or farmers markets. A place that we can welcome our out oftowners to our beautiful community. a place of gathering with co-workers or celebratory gatherings with friends on a rooftop bar. I am looking forward to that. I look at the site not with just me in mind, but a place for our generations that follow. A place where my children are able to frequent as a staple in our amazing community. Let's create this space with where as as a place that we can just eat, drink, laugh, make memories. And I don't feel that like I keep hearing this whole San Fernando thing. This is Thousand Oaks. Let's just make it a place that we can have forward thinking and enjoy for many, many years to come. Thank you. >> Thank you, Lauren. Next up is Chris Coli. >> Did I pronounce that right? >> Yeah. Cold. >> Okay, great. Good evening, mayor, council members, and staff. My name is Chris Coly, and I'm a 19-year-old resident of Thousand Oaks, artist, and entrepreneur. I support the downtown Thousand Oaks project because I believe this is a vote about the future of our city. First, it's about creating a place where the next generation wants to say, "Young artists, entrepreneurs, business leaders, and skilled workers are looking for communities that offer connection, opportunity, and energy. If we want the people to who grow up here to build their careers, businesses, and families here, we have to create a city that gives them a reason to stay. Second, it's about creating a true community gathering place. Thousand Nooks has great neighborhoods, parks, and schools that are all protected under our plan. But what but we we've often lacked is a central place where people can come together and enjoy local businesses, attend events, experience culture, and build community all in one space. This project isn't a departure from the values of Thousand Oaks. It's an investment in them. It creates opportunities for the arts, supports local businesses, encourages community connection, and helps ensure that the city remains vibrant for future generations. Finally, I want to recognize the process that brought us here. This project has been studied, discussed, and refined over many years. City staff and community members have invested countless hours gathering feedback and evaluating possibilities. While not everyone agrees on every detail, I believe we should acknowledge the extensive public engagement and thoughtful planning that have led us to this exact moment. As someone who hopes to build my future in Thousand Oaks, I think about what this city will look like in 20 years. The choice tonight is whether we continue investing in a future that attracts talent, supports local businesses, and strengthens our community. I respect and encourage you to support this project. Thank you. >> Thank you, Chris. I appreciate that. Mary Sullivan is next. And that is Mary still here? No. Then we'll have Nan Young. >> Hello and good evening to our leadership. Yes, I am Nan Young and I'm a resident of Thousand Oaks. I've been here since 1990. I am the director of Art Trek, an arts nonprofit organization in the area. And I thought I'd begin with a fun little story because in 2016, Art Trek along with the Arts Council of Cano Valley placed our public our Cano cotton tail on the property thinking it was sort of a placeholder knowing that very soon the area would be rebuilt. And that was 10 years ago. And I say that because I am so aware I'm looking at time of the long care, the concern, the continuous listening and attention and studying and the plans that have changed over the years and the attention paid to how meaningful a huge project like this will be for the community. I think for some people for the worse and for many people for the better. For me, I'm all for it. I look forward to seeing the growth in the arts in this community. I love Thousand Oaks. I love the idea that we will be taking families and friends for nights out in our beautiful destination for downtown. It is an intentional growth and a beautiful growth and I welcome it and I thank you very much. >> Thank you Nan. And next up is going to be Carl Culvin. >> Hello. My name is Carl Kulvinbach. I've been a transient here for 35 years. I'm joking. I'm Jo. It's been a long night. Okay. Um, and I had this all written out and stuff, but I'm just going to really go to bullet points at this point because you've heard a lot of this stuff over and over again. Obviously, I'm not in favor of this, but there are a lot of things that are really good about this project, but I think that things that have been brought out many times tonight, and one of them is this height thing. It's like it's just going to destroy our community. I've been here 35 years. I'm a scientist at Amgen. I've seen this growth here and it's great. But no, no tall buildings, no no additional hotels. What are they going to serve? What purpose are these going to serve? It's not a vibrant. We have a vibrant community. All this these words that are coming out this these buzzwords vibrant. How is this going to be more vibrant than what we have already? I don't understand this. It's a quarter of a mile area, right? How are people going to be waltzing around and going, "Oh, I'm so happy." It's like, come on, just build it so it's it's feasible. It's within our our um constraints of our developments, what our our our city charter is. Fit it in there. And the thing is, um we've got a lot of issues here in in Thousand Oaks. We have a hospital that's not providing care for our children. You know that, right? Well, okay. So, you're saying all these children are going to come here. What are they going to do when they get sick? >> They've got to go down to Seami Valley or wherever. It's not okay. >> And um and one other one other point just please >> two seconds just so we still have a lot of speakers. >> I know. Just one other point. Everybody's saying that the population is decreasing in Thousand Oaks. >> It's decreasing everywhere. It's like come on. Let's just just realize that this this is kind of some of the stuff. >> Carl, I got I got to stop it, my man. Thank you, though. I appreciate it. Next, we're on Marlene Hick. Oh, you know what? I think we're through the next five. Marlene Hack, Jake Zara, Nandia, Susan Ducket, Heather Hamilton, and James Donahghue. If you guys five can come down. I got to do it for 11. And so first up will be Marlene. Do we have No, Marlene's not here. Jake. Good evening. My name is Greg Zarandia. Uh thank you to the council for having all of us here. Uh, in 1961, before the city was even incorporated, my grandparents moved to a brand new house off Jan's road to start a family here. The city had just started out on a four decade tear of consistent growth and that resulted in a peak population in 2015, uh, the same year I graduated graduated from Westlake High School. Over several of the last 11 years, I had the experience to live, study, work in half a dozen cities around the state of California. And I can report with a pretty high certainty that Thousand Oaks is better than all of them. And that's the reason I'm here tonight. I think many in this room have been blessed to live in a Thousand Oaks that used to build and develop. Housing permits in the city of Thousand Oaks plummeted during the '08 recession and have never recovered. Uh between 2010 and 2020, the city experienced a 13% decline in households with children under the age of 18. Um enrollment at our schools, both public and private, has been consistently trending downward as young families don't see Thousand Oaks as a viable city for young families. I think the lack of building and development in Thousand Oaks in the last 20 years has not been very beneficial to the city and young people are leaving for lower cost uh lower cost of living states as a result of that. Uh young people from Thousand Oaks, including myself, struggle to see this as a community to plant roots. I think this proposal is thoughtful and I hope the council approves it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jake. Next up is Suzanne Ducket. Suzanne Ducket, Thousand Oaks. After listening tonight, I have my old speech is no longer. But I'm here to remind you that this is corruption. If you vote on this tonight and not allow measure E to take place, a lot of us voted for Measure E. The majority of the people voted for measure E. And apparently you're frightened about Measure E because you're avoiding it. You're avoiding having us vote on this project. If you vote yes on this project tonight, Santa Monica. I used to live in Santa Monica where we had a corrupt city council. They wanted to tear down the pier and build a a cement island so that the oil companies could drill. We voted them out of office, the city council out of office. We got a new city council in and you know what they brought to us? Rent control. Rent control for years. So if you're looking ahead, you're looking ahead. How many of you are going to be gone? >> Thank you, Suzanne. The We're getting close, guys. We're getting close. I'm going to ask you again. Please hold the the the clapping till the end. The next up is James Donnu. Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Heather Hamilton is next. My apologies, James. After listening to the experts and watching this process unfold, it's encouraging to see how thoughtfully this project has been evaluated. Because at its heart, this project is about optimism. A belief that tomorrow can be better than yesterday. A belief that we can learn, adapt, grow, and build something better, which we all should love. A community with a vision for the future is a beautiful thing. A community that shows up for its people is even a more beautiful thing. That's the kind of city I'm proud to live in. This room is or was packed packed for a building project. It tells me that people care. People are paying attention. People are invested in the future of this city. So, let's keep doing that. Let's keep building a city we're proud of. Let's have forward thinking. Let's keep our city thriving. Let's keep our people safe. Because buildings exist to serve people. People do not exist to serve buildings. The true measure of a city is not what it builds, it's how it treats its people. And let's make sure we continue to be the kind of city that cares as deeply about people as it does its projects. So, thank you. Thank you for this long night. It's great. >> Thank you, Heather. Next up is James Donnie. Thank you for being patient. >> Sure. I want to thank the um council as well for staying awake if nothing else. It is getting late. I hope you're all on overtime. Um my name is Jim Donahghue. I'm here with my wife Laura and we moved here 34 years ago from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada where we lived at the US embassy. Um, we moved to To because we were told it was the safest city in America and I think we can thank Ventura County Sheriff for that. um as well it was had great schools, great athletic programs and the best weather probably in the US. I've had the good fortune over the last 50 years uh to work in a myriad of jobs as a federal agent um as a US adviser uh to Southeast Europe as well as a national security adviser. Uh during that time I have probably been working in 60 70 different countries. Soviet block for the most part, Balkans, a little bit in the Baltics. And every country, pretty much every city had a downtown area that you could walk to, walk through, get a bite to eat, have a beer in the pub, and hopefully run into people you knew. And that was probably my biggest excitement when we'd go down there is to run into some of my students. And those were the probably the biggest developments that we saw during these trips. >> James, thank you so much. Unfortunately, the time's up, but we appreciate you. >> Okay. >> Uh before I call the next five, I need just because we're going to go past 11 o'clock. I'm going to need a concurrence from council that we can go past 11. Mr. Newman, Al, Bob, Ty. Okay. I'm a yes, too. So, good to go past 11. Okay. Next up, we have Diana Murville, Marty Cowle, Jessica Rescendes, Gail Casey, and Harry Ever. And Diana, whenever you you're ready, you can take the mic. Hi, I'm Diana Mville. I'm a 26-year resident of Thousand Oaks. And there's a Woodland Hills theme here because we moved here 26 years ago from Woodland Hills when they wrecked Woodland Hills by building the high-rise at Warner Center, which led to hyperdevelopment, crowding, traffic, degradation of education, crime. I mean, you name it, it happened. So, we moved out here over two decades ago to raise our family. And at that time, there were height limit ordinances that maintained the heights to two to three stories, no more than 50 feet, which kept the character of Thousand Oaks. Eight years ago, I stood in this very same hall and we had the same people all the way up to the top of the ceiling here. and we sat and we talked to your predecessors of city council and we contested changing the height limits at that time from 50 ft to 75 ft for the Caruso project and we were stunned when after we were here till 11:00 at night then too eight years ago and yet city council voted to approve the change of the 75 foot limits and it felt like the Paul Simon song the sound of silence where our words were like silent raindrops fell And now we're talking about 90 foot heights. It exceeds the previous baseline limits by 38% and violates the ordinances. All so that you can promise what? Thousand rents. You can't promise thousand rents. So stop calling it low-income housing. It's not. That's smoking mirrors. So anyways, please go home, listen to the sound of silence, think about it. Um and please vote no. >> Thank you, Diana. Next up is going to be >> my letter for public record. Yes, please do. Next up is Marty Koulle. >> No, Marty. We'll move to Jessica Rescendes. >> She's Okay, we'll come back to Jessica. Gail Casey. All right. And then Harry Ever. Don't let me forget Jess. Okay. Good evening. I grew up here. My family used to film westerns in Thousand Oaks and Tarzan right on this property. I was a co-chair of the city's committee of 100. We developed recommendations for the land surround the civic arts plaza back when it was being built. I drew one of the first concept renderings for the park in front of the lakes that hung on a wall in this in this building for many years. The question before you is not about the undisputed value of theaters, art, nightlife, or 39 affordable apartments. The question is what makes Thousand Oaks unique? When the Civic Arch Plaza was approved, we were assured that it would not set a new height precedent. 100 residents overwhelmingly agreed that any development must fit natural beauty. suburban character, Spanish architecture and history of the Canal Valley with the lakes. Carusu and his team did a great job of accomplishing that. The proposed downtown project design in it excessive height as it currently exists does not. It projects a stark dense urban design that will set a height precedent just as the arch plaza itself is being used as a height precedent tonight. The applicant stated tonight that this project is intended to become the nucleus of an ongoing expanding downtown development. And that is precisely what so many of the opponents of the project and probably the only opponents of this project are actually upset about. As a designer, I know that projects can be designed to be mitigate transparent density and scale. We can build whole soundstages that aren't visible. I know that simply building new restaurants and hotel does not make a successful entertainment district. I strongly support the theaters, the arts plaza, the hub 101 aspects of this project. We should do them. But I do not support and I ask you to reject the height overlay request. It is a violation of everything that previous councils have promised. It goes against the general plan, violates measure E, and is simply inappropriate for this project. Thank you. >> Thank you, Harry. And next up is going to be Oh, are you Jessica? >> Okay, go ahead, Jessica. Okay. Um, good evening, uh, Jessica Rescendes, Thousand Oaks. My family has called Thousand Oaks home since the 1980s. I grew up here and when I was younger, I didn't always appreciate what made the city unique. Like many teenagers, I thought there wasn't enough to do. But as I've gotten older, I've come to appreciate the open space, the sense of community, the oak trees, the safety, and the identity of a city that never tried to be Los Angeles. I appreciate thoughtful growth. I appreciate the newer restaurants, the breweries, businesses that have brought life into the community. I am not against development. What I oppose is the scale of these proposed seven-story buildings next to the civic arts plaza. They reflect a level of density and urbanization that does not fit the identity of Thousand Oaks. We've seen projects before that were presented as exciting auditions to the city only to struggle years later. My concern is that we are once again being sold a vision that may not age well with the community around it. Beyond appearance, there are real concerns about traffic, congestion, parking, infrastructure, safety, and the loss of the natural beauty that defines our city. Growth should complement Thousand Oaks, not overpower it. Please don't mistake opposition to these buildings as opposition to growth. Many of us support thoughtful growth. We simply do not want to lose what made this city special in the first place. I hope the council truly listens to the concerns being raised by residents tonight because many people care deeply about the future of the city and want to feel heard in decisions that will permanently shape Thousand Oaks because once the city loses its character, you cannot get it back. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jess. Next five are going We're Thank you. We're We're getting close, gang. We're getting there. Next five are going to be Daryl Malamut, Rob Harmon, Gary Raymond, Danielle Boura, and Fred Kershaw. Good evening. I live in North Ranch with my wife and two daughters. I originally moved to Thousand Oaks as a kid in the early 90s. I went to Westlake Hills Elementary, Kina Middle School, and Westlake High School. Uh I now have a 10-year-old and a 12-year-old. Um two girls. Uh we they're about the same age uh as I was when I moved to this area 30 years ago. I support the project. We need apartments for the new generation, including my kids when they become young adults. When I graduated from university, it took us 10 years to afford our first home. It was a condo. Uh during that time, while we saved, I lived in an apartment for that entire decade. We saved and saved and saved and we finally purchased our our our first home. We lived in different areas. Uh but finally, four years ago, we could afford to move back to Thousand Oaks and move home again. I support this project as it will create quality apartments that will house some of our next generation. period. I want our kids to be able to live in the same community as me. I also want to create a walkable downtown center where my kids are encouraged to put down their iPads and enjoy a fun downtown environment. I've been to this plaza for decades, but today was the first time I've eaten a meal on site. It was during that 5-minute break outside. This is not a gathering place currently. Like the young ladies before me said, we need more housing for our next generation and we need gathering places. I got a few ideas I'll quickly go through. Council member Newman asked about >> Darl, I got to I got to cut you off just because we hit time. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Uh next up is going to be Rob Harmon. >> No, Rob. Uh Gary Raymond. Greetings to the council. Appreciate being here. appreciate all your efforts. Um, so I've lived here since 1981 and in 1994 [clears throat] when this was built, I was the first sound engineer in charge of the sound of the facility here. Uh, which is an amazing facility was built with high integrity and was one of the reasons even though it hit a lot of flack that they built it the height they needed to to get a proper structure. Now that does not justify having uh 90 foot apartments or offices. It's totally does not justify that. This was something that was necessary for the theater. Um I, you know, we moved out here in ' 81. We lived in LA. We lived out in the valley. Um I'm old enough to remember when it it was nice out there and then, you know, we had all this construction and uh you know, it lost a lot of its charm and I've heard a very common theme tonight talking about that. Um, what I would like to propose is that the council offers two versions of this. Um, if they want to offer the version as it is right now, and I appreciate all the work that went into it, that's one thing. But I think what we need to do is offer a version that I would support, which is no more than four stories in any of the buildings and what I call the mountain ridgeel line rule, which is basically when you're standing on Teio Boulevard and you look up at the mountain, you can still see it. So basically you're limited to more or less a one-story building at you know on and then you go twotory three and four and build it back and so you don't feel like you're in this mechanical canyon and that's what's going to happen if you go with the sevenstory or you know kind of thing. So anyway I would suggest you try that. >> Thank you Gary. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um okay next is going to be Danielle Borcha. Good evening, Mayor Taylor, council members Danielle Boura, president CEO of the Greater Kaneo Valley Chamber of Commerce. I was born and raised in Thousand Oaks, and I have been fortunate to stay, work, and raise my family in a community that has helped shape me. But increasingly, that story belongs to a very select few. As a business leader and mother of three, I view Thousand Oaks through two lenses. The economic vision for our city and the quality of life we are going to leave the next generation. Major employers and companies continue invest in our community, demonstrating con strong confidence in the city that we've built. The creation of a downtown has been a vision for decades in the making and a promised council priority, an opportunity for the city to invest in its own future. The city has been carefully planning for this moment, bringing in regional architects with deep expertise of Ventura County, extensive community engagement and outreach, comprehensive economic analysis, numerous policy decisions that have laid the groundwork for this evening, and setting aside over $80 million to help fund this vision. None of this happened by accident or overnight. These were deliberate decisions made over many years that have steadily moved this vision forward. While many features of this project have been highlighted tonight, what resonates most is the sense of place it will create a downtown where everyone feels welcome. On behalf of the business community this evening, I hope we can celebrate moving the downtown from a rendering to reality with this final vote. Thank you. >> Thank you, Danielle. And next up will be Fred Kershaw. Okay, no Fred. Next five is going to be Brandon Adams, Ronald Seagull, Ryan Huggins, Grant Brimhol, and Matt Smith. And Brandon, if you're ready, you can take the mic. >> Maybe we don't have Brandon. Uh, we'll go next. Ronald Seagull. >> Good evening. My name is Ron Seagull. I'm a 57year resident of Cano Valley. Um, what do Santa Barbara's State Street, Ventura Main Street, Ohigh, Santa Monica Third Street, uh, Third Street in the Prominade have in common? They're all vibrant and they have a lot of visitors and they have entertainment. What they don't have is five and six and seven story buildings. So, the height of the building doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be vibrant. The space here we have in Thousand Oaks is finite. We have we have a finite space with finite infrastructure. There's no place to go but up. Approving this project will set a standard for the rest of Thousand Oaks Boulevard when people want to come and develop. Uh it's a slippery slope and I don't think we want it. I want to know what happened to the science center that was a promised to our community. It never happened. The lakes is a mitigated disaster. the Oaks is struggling and um a lot of the restaurants and other businesses are also struggling in this area. So, why not fix what was supposed to be promised to us here? Um we have urban development at Kmart and the um motel over by Jan's Mall that would make excellent uh redevelopment for low uh cost housing. This is our home. We should be able to decide what we want. And I think it would be behovven upon you, our representatives, to let us vote on this very important issue. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Ryan. Um, we're getting close, gang. If you could just please, we'll keep the clapping till the end and we'll go we'll go loose. Uh, next up, was that Ryan? That was Ronald. Ryan Huggin. That was Ronald. Yep. Ryan Huggin now. Yep. Uh, good evening, Mayor Taylor and city council members. My name is Ryan Huggin. I'm a Thousand Oaks resident and the 2026 president of the KOC Morpark Association of Realtors. I'm here today to express our strong support for the downtown Thousand Oaks project. Our association was proud to join the Greater Cano Valley Chamber of Commerce and more than 100 local businesses and organizations in signing a coalition letter supporting this effort. That level of unified support reflects something important. This project is not just a development. It's a long envisioned investment in the future of our community. For years, the creation of a true downtown has been a top priority for Thousand Oaks, and this project represents a rare once in a generation opportunity to bring that vision to life. From a realtor perspective, projects like this are critically important, especially in a market where housing inventory remains limited. Additional housing options, including the approximately 240 units proposed as part of this project, are desperately needed, not only in Thousand Oaks, but across the broader region. Expanding housing opportunities in a thoughtfully planned mixeduse environment helps meet demand while supporting long-term stability in our housing market. Equally important, this project helps position Thousand Oaks for the future. A vibrant, walkable downtown with housing, dining, entertainment, and gathering spaces gives residents and the growing generations reason to stay, build their lives here, and remain invested in this community rather than looking elsewhere for those opportunities. This is about creating a place where people don't just live, but where they can connect, engage, and feel a part of something. And thank you for your time. Respectfully encourage the council move forward with this approval. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ryan. And next up is Grant Brimall. I soon will begin my 90th year and most of that has been spent in Thousand Oaks. I've been blessed to be involved in the city in a variety of ways. I appreciate the tremendous work that has been undertaken to create this proposal. I think it makes sense. It is a long-h held dream that this community has had to have a place the likes of which you are considering. I think it will be a blessing to my children, three of whom still live here in town, to my grandchildren, to the people in the immediate vicinity, and to all who come here, to our youth who enjoy the places that will be provided here. I think it is a great proposal, a visionary one. I believe you're on the right path for make this helping this city continue to move forward and become the great city that she needs to be. I helped Amgen move from a very small building into a building about the size of this space. There have been a few changes at Amgen. Oaks wall was fought. We have had opposition to Amgen in the early days because some people thought that their laboratories might dispense of water into the sewage system which could be dangerous. >> Grim I absolutely hate to do this. >> City managers can't possibly talk in less than an hour. So >> I know >> I thank you for the blessing of being able to speak here and to express my support and advocate your approval. >> Thank you. >> The concepts in this plan. Uh next up is Matt Smith. >> Thank you. Uh I'm Matt Smith. I'm a dad here in Thousand Oaks. Um, and I just wanted to say I support this project and thank you to the city council and the staff for putting it forward. Um, takes a lot of courage, I think, to do what you're doing and I hope you keep going forward. As a dad, when I look at this project, I see a one-stop shop to bring the family. I don't have to redo the car seat multiple times in an afternoon to go from the grocery store to a park to a, you know, a show. And I think that's a major asset. I think the fact that it's a one-stop shop for us means less traffic because I won't be driving all over the afternoon to fill time uh with a 4-year-old. I get to go to one stop and I don't have to drive uh all over the city. But for it to work, uh, and I think this gets to the point that everybody is focused on, there needs to be people downtown because what's going to make it interesting and what's going to make it work is that there's foot traffic. And that's why some of the uh vacant the other commercial area are vacant. With a sevenstory building, there's going to be people around. And I actually think the city council deserves to hear the other side of the height factor. I would go higher because this project could do more units. With fewer uh new units in this project, that reduces the effect this project is going to have on bringing the cost of housing down in our neighborhood. Fewer units is a higher cost per unit for the total project. Uh in 10 seconds, some things I hope I hope there's a playground. I wish it's I hope more of it was closed off to cars. I wish it had more housing. I hope it has ample clean bathrooms. and I hope it becomes the hub of a network of uh protected bike lanes. Thank you. >> Thank you, Matt. And then the next four are going to before we move move to Zoom, Sarah Finch, Diane Kulvin, Greg Montasera, and Chuck Cohen. And Sarah, whenever you're ready, you can begin. Hi, good evening. Thanks for going the distance here. Um, I just want to say resident 30 years. Um, not opposed to change. Would love to see something new. Been waiting for that for 30 years. I too remember a discovery center being promised an IMAX being promised. It would have been lovely to go to the IMAX and then go to the claim jumper to have the seven layer chocolate cake for a raw birthday party, but you know that got pushed out. So anyways, um uh just the whole thing I the the height is completely out of character with this town. I first learned about it when I was here coming to a performance and I saw the big poster and we just stopped dead in our tracks. I mean this was so far from anything we thought anyone would ever consider. Seven stories. I mean that's just that's just not anything. This will be twice the height of the new development apartment that's at the end of Herbs on Thousand Oaks Boulevard. Right. That's twice that height. My other question is, is the sun going to shine in this development when we have all these towered buildings? I mean, is there going to be daylight in between these buildings? It's a serious serious question. Um, also I this thing about apartments as housing. Apartments are rentals, right? Rentals put money into the developer's pocket. I want to see things where our kids can buy town homes, condos, so they too can build equity in this fabulous community and um and they can stay here. Never have I said in my life, "Oh, honey, I hope that our son can someday rent an apartment in Thousand Oaks." Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Sarah. And next up will be Diane Culvin. >> Yes. >> Thank you, mayor and council members. I appreciate being here. I I had everything that I wanted to say taken from me by all of the people who have expressed their opposition. I I oppose this and I oppose this not because I am old and because I don't want wonderful things to develop in our city going forward. I don't like the scope of what you're proposing here. I think it's too large. It's too much. and the impacts that it's going to present to the people and the businesses who live and work in this community are not going to be mitigated by the supposed benefit after we're all said and done. We have this giant hotel which may or may not be full at any given time. I have a 19-year-old son. Um he's my youngest. My others have all grown up and moved on. And yet, yeah, they're not living in Thousand Oaks because their businesses, their jobs took them to other places. But it's not because they didn't love Thousand Oaks. It's because they had to move because their careers took them to other places. They started here, but then had to leave for for obvious financial reasons. My 19-year-old said he would not go to a downtown just because there was a big hotel and some boutique stores. that wasn't going to drive him to want to stay and hang out in downtown. He does go to the restaurants in the area. He's got a big group of friends. They're all foodies. They go to all the restaurants and they they frequent all of the places that anyone would frequent whether or not they're staying and living in Thousand Oaks. So, thank you. Please put it to a vote here. The citizens, not the businesses that want to profit from this development. >> Thank you, Diane. Next up is Greg Monaceera. Good evening, city council. I'm Greg Monorosa. I am a business owner here in uh the region and I also chair the Kaho Future Foundation which has been responsible for a lot of cool programs like the Teen Center and a lot of the plans that Thousand Oaks has been focused around. And I just want to share that I'm pro this downtown Thousand Oaks project. Um what excites me isn't the boutiques or the restaurants, but it's the economic development that is going to drive to the region. tired of my employees having to drive from Santa Clarita into Thousand Oaks every day to come to work. It'll be really nice to give our local nurses and our local teachers a place to call home where they don't have to drive in from out of town anymore. So, this project is really exciting to me as not just somebody that lives in the region, but as a business owner, as someone that contributes to the betterment of our region. So, thank you all for taking the time tonight and I'm completely for this project. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Greg. I'm sorry about the last name. I'm not doing well tonight. Uh, Chuck Cohen. Thank you for reinterpreting my card. I'm Chuck Cohen. Uh I have uh three um three children here this evening who who are now either in or about to be in their 60s who were brought up in Thousand Oaks. I want to u express a particular point that the tonight's hearing is truly an exercise in public discourse and in the way that uh your mayor has handled this this hearing is a is a ideal decorum. I also want to thank the Swanson for being here tonight because they prove that somebody was here before me. Tonight's hearing is is actually a precursor to the to the project that you're considering. You have brought the this project has already brought the people of Thousand Oaks together and in this place and uh in in in this particular instance the project actually is a am I done? [laughter] >> If you want to wrap it up, we give you 10 seconds. Well, I just wanted to let you know from a historic standpoint, this project is the result of board of supervisors in the Ventura County in the 50s and 60s uh failing to understand uh what a downtown would mean in the east end of Ventura County because it's it it needs what you're doing tonight because of the absence of a grid grid street grid system in in the community. So there's there's really good historic and technical reasons for what you're doing tonight as being appropriate and necessary. >> Thank you, Chuck. We appreciate that. Now, we're going to move over to Zoom. Thank you all for being so patient. We're going to start with Carlos Portillio. >> He's not on >> Carlos. Dang it. Uh, next up is Joe Barnes, >> also not on. >> Dang it. Uh, Kyus Dailyaly. >> Yes, >> there girl. All right. >> Good evening, city council. My name is Kyla Staley and I'm an attorney with the law firm Drury here on behalf of Supporters Alliance for Environmental Responsibility or SAFER. Safer submitted uh written comments, but um Safer respectfully requested the city council refrain from approving this project at this time because the EIR for the project fails to adequately analyze and mitigate significant impacts related to hazards and air quality. First, uh the ER improperly assesses the soil contamination at the site. The IR reasons that since the soil contamination levels at the site are below commercial and industrial thresholds that the project soil contamination would be insignificant. Um, but this is an appropriate use of those thresholds because this project is planned for residential use and there is a residential threshold that can adequately assess the significance of the site's soil contamination. Even the Department of Toxic Control Substances, a state agency, expressed its concern over the EI's use of these commercial thresholds for a residential project. Um, and then when you compare the levels of soil contamination at the site um to those residential thresholds, those those contamination levels exceed those residential thresholds. Um secondly, the ER has not imposed all feasible mitigation measures to reduce the project's emissions of reactive organic gases and SQL requires that before a statement of providing considerations is adopted that all significant impacts be mitigated to the extent peaceful. Thank you. >> Thank you, Kyler. Next up is Christina Destit. >> She's not on. >> Okay. Madison [snorts] Richardson. >> Hi. Can you guys hear me? >> We can hear you. Go ahead. >> My name is Madison Richardson. I'm a resident of Newberry Park. Overall, I support the mission of this project, but I'm just trying to figure out what's affordable about the affordable housing being proposed. Under the latest state housing metrics for Ventura County, a family of four, lowincome eligibility is capped at nearly $120,000 a year. Because statemandated rent is tied to these high regional brackets, the monthly rent for a designated low-income apartment can easily be set over three grand a month. A $3,000 rent check provides zero relief for our local retail workers, restaurant servers, or young adults starting their careers. Because this project is still under review, this council has the full legal authority to demand a better deal. I urge you to use your leverage and attach strict conditions of approval to the final agreement. For example, we can require deeper affordability tiers, force the developer to allocate specific portion of these units very low income or extremely lowincome households rather than letting them all default to the highest possible cap. Let's support a better city, but demand real accountability. Update this plan so it actually serves the people who keep thous. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madison. Thank you for being so patient waiting. Last up, I I don't know if we can raise it on Zoom. We have one more left, but if you can and you can't hear. Let's do that. We have two more. Um Jennifer James, are you still with us? Okay, I see Jennifer Marshall. Jennifer, are you still here? >> Yes, I am still here. >> All right. Thank you so much. Go ahead. >> You're welcome. Hold on one second here. >> Can you guys hear it? Okay. No. Can we turn that up? >> Hey, uh, Jennifer, hang on one second if you want. >> Okay, that's great. Go ahead. >> Okay. Jennifer Marshall, resident um for 44 years of Thousand Oaks. I'm here to discuss the marginal impact on the manufactured housing crisis. Honestly, the only math that's mathing is Councilman Newman. If you think about it, only Council Newman's math is correct. The 24% is misleading. Seven stories, 240 units, only 39 affordable units. 16% dedicated to those affordable minimum units. That's the bare minimum. It makes no real dents. Affordable housing does not equal affordable living. The poverty limit here is 80,000 to 60,000 depending upon numbers of dependent. The average income is 135,000. The young adults can simply not afford the cost of living. With a few hundred active residential listings to buy and even more vacancy rentals, is it true that there is not enough housing? Is the state telling cities the truth or just attempting to get more money in order to increase the tax base? The reality is a lot of people, they want to live in places they simply cannot afford. Artificially creating an affordable housing will change everything. It's irresponsible of the city. It does not solve the root of the problem. It does not help the long um term and the long studies. >> Jen, >> I have to ask really quickly. Um, have any studies been conducted that demonstrate families can make it in this area with all the additional financial burdens? >> Jennifer, we we'll open it up to staff questions at the end. Thank you so much for waiting till second and last. This might be a relative. Elizabeth Marshall. >> Yes. >> Okay. [gasps] You are the last speaker. Is that correct? No, another one. Dang. Second to last. Jennifer, I lied. You were third. All right, Elizabeth, you're up. >> When my parents moved out from KGO Ko uh Koga Park, I'm sorry. Um I'm also a mom of two kids who have attended our wonderful um public schools here. My daughter just graduating um from Westlake High School. I did my masters at the UCLA um School of Public Health. And I do have some concerns about increasing the population. While we only have one major um hospital here, um the ER wait times as it is, they're get they're bad and they're only going to get longer. Um beds are going to be harder to come by and under um peak COVID flu seasons as well as any other future emergencies, this can be um a major uh problem. We also say that um we want to bring in young families, but our closest um hospital does not have a pediatric intensive care um unit with the nearest ones being in Ventura or Northridge, which isn't acceptable. We we we really need to make sure our existing facilities can handle this increase in population um before we go forward. Um and the people who are here now should not have to to suffer, which they most certainly um will if this project is approved. I do also have concerns with the increased air pollution, noise pollution, and light pollution. Um, and um, I think that's really all I have to say. Also, I have been on those wait lists for affordable units and they could take up to eight years. Um, those affordable units aren't really going to solve um, anything. It's kind of a joke. And um with the um poverty level being like 80,000, it's not really going to help the young people and become the vibrant scene that I think people think it's going to be. Thank you for your time and have a good night. >> Thank you, Elizabeth. You as well. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Jennifer James, the last speaker. Jennifer, are you with us? Um, do I call it one second? >> She needs to unmute. >> Jennifer, if you can hear us, unmute if you can. You're the last one in the anticipation is booming. We're ready for you. I'm blaming you if I cut her off. >> I'm just joking. >> She still won't unmute. >> Nope. Gh. Um, she won't unmute. Okay. Dang it, Jennifer. All right. Well, you guys want to just let one rip? Thank you guys for doing a great job. Everybody speaking. [applause] >> [applause] >> All right. I appreciate everyone being here. Thank you so much. Thank you for the respect. You guys were phenomenal. Um, right now I'm going to move into staff and if they would like to respond to any comments. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. [laughter] Uh, before I get to that though, I do want to sincerely appre say thank you to everybody here. um and staying late and providing your comments. Um so this is how this is going to work for uh staff responding to comments since there are so many. Um I am going to tackle a few of the comments first and then I'm going to pass it off to colleagues. So for me I will be handling let's see well I have a list. I'm just going to go ahead and start from the top. Um there were a lot of comments uh regarding measure E and that this project requires a vote of the people. So measure E only applies to general plan amendments that make changes to specific land use designations. This project is exempt from voter requirements of measure E per Thousand Oaks Municipal Code 9-2.203D 203D which specifically exempts certain general plan amendments from voter requirement when they are one necessary for viable use two necessary for viable use of publicly owned land and land which has been declared surplus. So this is city-owned property that was declared surplus on June 18th, 2024 and July 8th of 2025. and the general plan amendment will designate institutional land to mixed use for a viable use of the property. Uh there was some comments related to uh jungle land and the request to take care of a I apologize. I think it was a lion structure. Uh that is a policy decision by the council. So I will leave that to them. Uh I'm going to skip over evacuation. That's going to be handled by uh Chief Paris and Kelly Allen from CSG. And I'm going to go to uh building height. Heard a lot of comments tonight relating to building height, seven stories, and potentially setting a precedent for other areas in the city. The proposed building heights are consistent with the longestablished planning framework for specific plan 11. Since its adoption in 1989, specific plan 11 has contemplated development at a scale and intensity greater than that permitted elsewhere in Thousand Oaks, including building heights of up to 129 ft and a mixeduse downtown orientated development pattern. In 1992, the city council implemented that vision through approval of the civic arts plaza complex, which includes some of the tallest buildings in the city, as I mentioned earlier, including the 129 ft tall cavly theater, the 85- foot tall parking structure, and the 76 ft share forum. Importantly, specific plan 11 was intentionally created as a specialized planning area with unique development standards that do not establish precedent for the rest of the city. While the specific plan has authorized taller buildings for more than three decades, similar heights have not proliferated elsewhere in Thousand Oaks because the standards are limited to this specific geographic area. The project site already contains, as I said, some of the tallest city structures, demonstrating that larger scale development has long been anticipated and accepted within specific plan 11. The proposed building heights are therefore not introducing a new development pattern but rather implementing the framework established by the specific plan and reinforced through subsequent planning efforts. The primary distinction is the proposed mixeduse residential component. The building heights themselves are consistent with the development intensity envisioned for the site and remain compatible with the both the general plan and the specific plan. And as a result, the proposed heights represents a logical continuation of the city's long-standing planning objectives for this unique site. Uh I'm going to pass over hotel and water availability. Those are going to be addressed by my uh colleagues after I finished a few other topics. Uh there were some comments regarding parking that there was not enough parking and how was it calculated? Uh the residential parking was calculated using the state density bonus law and the parking is unbundled which has been required by state law since 2023 per AB1317 for Ventura County. Unbundled parking means that the cost of a parking space is separated from the cost of renting or purchasing a residential unit. This uses parking more efficiently because spaces are allocated to those who actually need them. Of the 240 res units, 150 of those are studios, 52 are onebedrooms and 38 are two bedrooms. For the commercial uses, the parking is calculated using ratios in the specific plan. And as I mentioned earlier, the project is overparked and there is a surplus of spaces except for when the existing and future theaters all have sold out performances for which the two off-site parking spaces uh will provide adequate parking. Uh there are some comments related to uh SQUA which again I'll come back to those in a moment. Um there are some comments related to conflict of interest. I'll come back to that. Uh, regarding density bonus law, uh, if a developer puts in affordable housing, there was a comment that said if a developer puts in affordable housing, he can void all zoning laws. Uh, there is no developer associated with the project at this point and there are no waiverss or concessions being proposed as part of the project. There were also comments related to Reena. uh comment commenters said that the arena that the city's arena has been met. For the record, this is an inaccurate statement. The city's reena obligations are 2,621 units for the sixth cycle, which occurs from 2021 to 2029. And building permits have only been issued for 687 units, mostly at the market rate income level. Only 26 units have been issued in the low income category. And there's a remaining need of 468 units in the low in income category. Over 1,900 units are still remaining for this cycle. But I do understand that affordable units are in very high demand. This project will not solve the affordable housing crisis, but it will certainly help. Uh there are other questions related to officers arts comments. Uh there was some comparison, a lot of comparison to the San Franando Valley. Uh so if we're going to compare the San Fernando Valley to Thousand Oaks, uh the San Fernando Valley has 1.8 million residents in over 400 square miles, which is about 4,100 or so people per square mile or 11 people per acre. There are only 121,000 residents in Thousand Oaks and 56 square miles at 3.5 people per acre. So the main difference in the San Fernando Valley is that there really wasn't that much planning. It's a lot of hodge podge. And conversely, we are closely planning and managing growth here. Uh the last comment that I have is in regards to uh a comment that was provided on the EIR. So, I'm going to let um my colleague handle that. So, I'm going to go back up to the top of the list now um for the topics that I did not cover. And the first one at the top of the list is evacuation. So, if I could have either Chief Paris or and or Kelly Allen. Thank you. >> Yeah, I'm I'm happy to talk about this topic and uh it excites me about the good work we do as a a contract agency for the city. Um emergency planning, evacuations planning is done in conjunction with the uh sheriff's office emergency services. It's done on a regional basis. the city's participated that in in um recent time the city participated with the cities of Seami Valley and and More Park to uh develop evacuation routes. Those can be found on the city's website. Um as far as the number of officers, uh the city does pay for 93 officers, but they share costs for a whole bunch of other officers uh that aren't included in that 93. So uh this is a topic I talk about with the community frequently because the contracting is a lot different than say the seami of uh city of seami who has their own police department. I think they have about 140 officers. Um so our 93 reads uh less but I I want to read off some of the units that the city benefits for but they pay a portion of that and share it with the other contract cities and with the county. So, um, first is we have eight patrol sergeants assigned to the city that, uh, that are here patrolling that aren't paid for. So, that's on top of the 93, but also the office of emergency services, internal affairs, training, recruitment, aviation unit, dispatch, just a small listing of the other units that you pay a portion for that you use for. And that's one of the ways one, you get lower costs, but two, you also um get uh have access to a large amount of resources when we need them, especially in times of emergency. And I'll just give one quick uh example of that. Last week, we had a man with a gun come into one of our office buildings, and we were able to get 61 officers there. Um that's because they came from the other contract cities around you wearing the same uniform on the same radio, same looking car, same policies, uh all able to converge and handle um emergencies like that Kelly. Thank you. Hello, my name is Kelly Allen and I am one of the authors of the EIR from CSG. I'm going to repeat several of the items that were already mentioned with regard to evacuation many hours ago. Um, but I think I'll just kind of summarize a lot of those points and hopefully wrap it up with a nice little bow. Um, I'm going to reiterate the conclusions of the evacuation study prepared for the project. But first, I want to explain the assumptions that went into the population increase estimation. The estimated daily population for the project upon complete buildout is 1,491 persons, which is a conservative estimate because it assumes daily full occupancy of the hotel, full occupancy of every residential unit at a rate of 2.75 persons per unit. Daily events at the new 200 seat performance venue in the Civic Arts Plaza requiring daily staffing and daily events at full capacity at the band shell and amphitheater. We retained a traffic specialist with expertise in evacuation studies who considered the maximum potential daytime population upon full buildout, which would result in a less than 1% increase to the overall population of the city. They also considered the evacuation analysis prepared for the safety element as part of the general plan update and determined that the less than 1% population increase as a result of the project would be negligible and would therefore have a marginal impact on evacuation capacity compared to existing conditions. Additionally, as again has already been mentioned, East Thousand Oaks Boulevard would serve as the primary evacuation route for the project, which provides access to both State Route 23 and Highway 101, which are two primary evacuation routes in the city. It was also determined that evacuation proceedings would not be impaired by the project because evacuations by their nature often overwhelm roadways and the project's cumulative contribution to such a situation would not be significant. Streets are not designed to accommodate all vehicles in an area all at once, regardless of the setting. This makes evacuations unique because all vehicles on the roadway at once are not traffic, but an extraordinary, temporary, and rare emergency circumstance. Is not practical and likely not possible to design roadways or road networks for evacuation. That being said, the physical conditions that would allow for successful evacuations from a site threatened by wildfire include the following three characteristics. adequate access, adequate fire access to the site, multiple routes for evacuation within a short distance that lead away from the site away from wildfire areas and being located outside of the wildland urban interface or WOOI so that evacuation does not require traveling through areas susceptible to wildfire and where firefighters may be battling wildfire. If these conditions are in place, new uses would not interfere any more with evacuation proceedings than nearby existing uses within the same physical context would. From an emergency management perspective, urban infill development is the preferred location for concentrating new residences due to the characteristics I just discussed. Though this project site is located in the wildland urban interface because it is in a very high fire hazard severity zone. The proposed project site would have adequate fire access as was demonstrated in the earlier presentation. The project has been designed to allow for sufficient fire access throughout the entire property and the wildfire study that was prepared for the project in coordination with the Ventura County Fire Department determined that the project as currently designed would meet or exceed all Ventura County fire codes related to fire access. The site also has multiple evacuation routes located within a very short distance. Therefore, the proposed project provides improved fire access to the project site by adding more than one point of ingress egress connected to Thousand Oaks Boulevard compared to existing conditions. Travel distances from the project site to Highway 101 or other evacuation routes are short and the evacuation routes themselves have multiple travel lanes. Additionally, the site is located in urbanized setting and there are no wildland areas susceptible to wildfire located between the project site and adjacent evacuation routes. Therefore, the evacuation study and the wildfire study concluded that the proposed project would provide sufficient fire access to the project site. The site is located immediately adjacent to primary evacuation routes within the city and it would introduce urban infill development in a defensible area of the city which is the preferred preferred development type for new residential uses in the context of wildfire safety. Therefore, the project was found to not impair an adopted emergency evacuation plan or emergency evacuation proceedings. Thank you. Uh, so the next topic is traffic and I'm going to pass it over to Deputy Director Ted Gerber. >> Thank you, Kristen. [clears throat] Uh, we very much appreciate the thoughtful comments tonight. Uh, neighborhood traffic can be frustrating and impact quality of life. >> Excuse me. Sorry. This is now response to the public comments. So, the public comments was the time to share and then now staff responding to public comments. I I I I understand, but unfortunately, no. The the the public comments is where the conversation is and then here's the followup. >> She's she can just respond to the comments presented. Yes, that that's she >> I if if staff would be willing maybe they're willing to have a conversation after the meeting but for how the meeting is going the public comments was the time to speak now we have our staff and in this case experts responding to the comments and then council will go through the exercise as well. >> Thank you mayor. Um so we talked about the project's very limited impact on traffic performance through the evaluation of a few parameters. One considering VMT, how many miles people visiting the site will travel that was mentioned in the applicant presentation. Uh the project VMT impacts are due to workers traveling to come into the city. It was also mentioned in the public comment related to the traffic on the 101. One of the major benefits of mixed use is creating places closer together where one could travel within the day. And when accounting for that in the analysis, the vehicle miles traveled actually drops per service population. Part of that is getting folks off the freeways and roadways and into the local community and that can be further improved with providing multimodal transportation options to and from the site. On another parameter, level of service. This is the grade or the score that we give to an intersection to quantify its average delay. The longer the delay, the lower the grade from A to F. We see that there are already delays ranging from 10 to 40 seconds at the various intersections around the site considering the project. So those are grades B, C, and D. Even with the cumul cumulative impacts of other development projects in the area, including the Tio Ranch project at the Kmart site on Hampshire, we still see about the same delays on Thousand Oaks Boulevard. So from that analysis, we can see that the existing traffic patterns as expressed by delays don't significantly change with the project. This is in part because Thousand Oaks Boulevard as an arterial with two lanes in each direction is designed to accommodate about 37,000 vehicles per day. But with current usage plus the proposed project, in the worst case scenario, Thousand Oaks Boulevard will continue to be under capacity, about 30% under capacity with the project at about 26,000 trips per day. On the topic of of water, in short, this project does not significantly impact the city's water supply. Specifically, we're talking about an increase of less than 1% of the city's current usage, especially considering that the city's water use is dropping. Since 2021, there's been approximately 20% decrease in water usage in the city and approximately 40% reduction since 2007. There's a few reasons for that. population decrease for one, state conservation requirements for another. Also, new construction is far more water efficient. For example, all landscaping for the project will feature drought tolerant native plants that require minimum water. And multifamily housing requires significantly less water than single family. Most of the city's residential usage is for outdoor watering. So, the typical resident in this project will use far less water than residents in a single family home would use. Thanks Kristen. >> Okay. All right. The next topic see parking. Uh there was a couple comments related to SQUA on alternatives analysis and um and a shade and shadow analysis. I have >> biological resources. >> Correct. The the claim was that there is no alternative analysis was conducted per squa and that significant and unavoidable impacts were to biological resources. >> Good evening. So just to confirm um the draft and final EIR did address alternatives and fully complied with the California Environmental Quality Act requirements under section 15126.6 address the no project alternative and a reduced density alternative as well. So that uh want to clarify that there the full analysis of alternatives is included in the documentation. also want to cover biological resources. It was mentioned that it should have been an unavoidable adverse impact for biological resources. Um our technical analysis concluded mitigation would be required more specifically under the preconstruction uh uh scenario certain habitat uh could exist in the uh project area. So pre-construction surveys three three different mitigation measures were presented and based on the mitigation uh impacts were determined to be less than significant. So I wanted to clarify that point as well. >> Should we take a pause here, Tracy? Yeah, we we've got to take a we've got to take a formal vote for us to go past midnight. Correct. >> Do you have to call that? >> Yeah, I'll call. >> Will you please call that? >> Yes. Um, so this is a vote to go past midnight as the mayor said. Council member Adam >> to go past midnight. >> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. >> Thank you. Uh, Council Member Newman. >> I. >> Council member Gutierrez. >> Yes. >> Mayor Prom Angler. >> And Mayor Taylor, >> yes. And that passes five to zero. >> Okay. And I'm going to say it again. We're going to shoot for a fivem minute break. Maybe it's two. Maybe it's seven. We're going to go for a fivem minute break. >> [music] [music] >> of heat. Heat. Heat. Hello again. Uh, >> wait, wait one second. Can we just confirm toot's on? Okay, we're good to go. During the U process, we received uh two comment letters from Safer um and responses to their comments have been developed and we want to uh pass the documentation on to the city clerk for the record that responses have been provided to those uh correspondents from Safer All right, the last topic that we have will be handled by our city attorney, Tracy Nan. >> Thank you, Miss Rice. So, the the last comment I wanted to talk about is um a couple of uh people came up tonight and talked about um potential conflicts of interest with Mayor Taylor and also we received some written comments regarding potential conflicts of interest with um council member Tai Gutierrez. And there were two bases for the um for the assertion that there was a conflict of interest and these council members need to recuse themselves. So let's first talk about what conflict of interest is. Conflict of interest is regulated by the political reform act. And I was actually really impressed by the person who talked about the political reform act. A lot of times people will come up and just say it's a conflict of interest, but I was really impressed that the person did some research on the political reform act. And that is basically the legal parameters that regulate when a decision maker can participate in a decision such as what's before the city council tonight. And the premise of having a conflict of interest under the political reform act is based on the fact that a decision maker has a financial interest in the project before the city council for purposes of tonight. In this case, um let's talk first about um assertions that both uh council member Gutierrez and Mayor Taylor have a conflict of interest because they attended a chamber event. Um they have no financial investment in the chamber event. In fact, I believe they were just went there and were speaking to constituents and so there's no violation of the political format for them to participate in this meeting because they don't have a financial interest in the chamber. With respect to the second uh suggestion and assertion tonight that Mayor Taylor has a conflict of interest because he is involved in real estate and he accepts campaign donations from real realtors. First of all, let's start with the premise that this project that is before the city council tonight does not involve a developer. This is a city project that is being moved forward at council direction, but there is no developer involved in this. So whether C uh Mayor Taylor is accepting campaign contributions or not is irrelevant for the purposes of making a decision tonight. There are no developers involved in this project and therefore any campaign contributions he has received is irrelevant to this particular decision tonight. So based on that there are no conflicts of interest for either of these council members to continue to participate. >> Was that the final one? >> You were the final. Okay. Um All right. For council. >> Nope. Applicant rebuttal. Um assistant city manager. This is your time for a rebuttal. I get I get I get foggy around 10. Start getting tired. I'm so past it. Thank you for bearing with me. I think you and I both have infants at home, so uh we get extra points, so um this is well past my bedtime. Uh I first off just want to thank much like Miss Rice did, um everyone for being here tonight. And I know we're we're down to uh the lonely few at the end, but um one of the things that I've loved about this entire process and entire project is all the people that I have met along the way, not only through the community conversations, but um many of the folks that showed up tonight actually sent me emails over the past few months. Um not all of them were uh auditory about what was being proposed, but I still had the pleasure of meeting them. And a lot of them actually came into city hall. We chatted and we had I felt enlightening conversations and that was rewarding for me as as uh someone uh who has dedicated their life to public service to be able to meet more of the residents that we serve. I want to start with u some of the things that maybe already have been touched upon. I don't want to reiterate it too much. Um first off regarding measure E, the the Civic Arts Plaza specific plan of course from 1989 predates Measure E. I think that's I think M. Rice mentioned the date, but I I want to put it in those terms, predates. Um, regarding population and our emergency personnel's uh ability to serve additional population, I think it's important to keep in mind, just like we did at the outset of the presentation, we have lost 11,000 people. Our emergency services actually provided service to 11,000 more people just a decade ago. Um, and to keep things in perspective, we have roughly 2,000 housing units in the pipeline, right? Inclusive of the downtown if it were to be approved. Uh, roughly a thousand of those units are in some stage of development currently. If you want to assume roughly two and a half people per unit, we're talking about the addition of 2500 new residents of Thousand Oaks potentially. And again, perspective is everything when you consider that we've lost 11,000 people. The addition of 200 more would mean we're still roughly 8,500 people fewer than where we started 10 years ago. Regarding 299 and 1710, those were referenced in comments. Um, I just want to point out the units at 1710 are fully occupied. In fact, last time we checked, which was just about 60 days ago, they had a waiting list for people wanting to uh become residents at that project. 299 is 95% occupied and there's three successful businesses fronting Teio Boulevard as part of that project. Regarding the one vacancy at 1710, that is of course, I think, as the council might be aware, a a landlord tenant dispute, but uh we hope to have that space um occupied rather soon. Regarding the height of 1710 relative to what's being proposed here, I do want to point out that the building that front teal boulevard, you might have seen those those renderings where you have the buildings graduating downwards towards the boulevard uh responding to the sidewalk, responding to the to the human scale. Um, I want to point out that those buildings are considerably smaller than the one in the back that I think has been the uh focus of tonight's conversation. I'm going to hand the mic to uh Nick shortly and he'll wrap up my my last 90 seconds. But I just want to share one last anecdotal tidbit here regarding this the building that we're sitting in right now in the Cyprus Plaza and we heard some comments the effect of maybe it never should have been built. And I just want to point out something that um I'm incredibly grateful for guys like Alex Yori and guys like Frank Schillow who who stuck their necks out there to have this building built many many years ago. Um I had my first violin recital kind of where the chair is today. 1994. Um, I was not very good. Um, so which is why probably I gave it up, but my mom was in the crowd and nonetheless cheering me on because that's what uh this community gave our our our residents that opportunity to do that. Um, Nick, if you would come up here, he's going to talk briefly about the uh connection as Pentur and Santa Barbara and how it relates to this project. >> Good evening. um really appreciate the opportunity to be here and the the testimony has been uh very engaging and it's impressive honestly. Um and I know the process that we've been through has been um quite quite deep. Um there was some comments made about downtown Ventura, downtown Santa Barbara. Um I I'm a practicing architect in Ventura. I've been practicing for about 44 years. Had my office in downtown Ventura for 42 years. was the chief instigator of renewing and creating a downtown specific plan for Ventura in 19 uh 94. Um helped rebuild downtown Filillmore after the north earthquake. Um cities like Santa Barbara, Ventura, Filillmore, Camaro, these were built as traditional towns. They were built primarily before the car dominated our lives. And one of the things that you find about them is they do have taller buildings. Santa Barbara actually has five, six, sevenstory buildings. Uh not so much parking except that they then came in and built parking structures, right? Ventura has been struggling with this. Parking is a is a is a commodity in in Ventura and frankly in most of the downtowns, parking is, you know, kind of a constant challenge. Um but I think the the point is Thousand Oaks didn't have that. Thousand Oaks didn't get built around a downtown. Nick, >> I got to cut you off on your time. It's it's just it's it's a different comparison. >> Thank you. Thank you both. All right. Um am I able to now close the public hearing and move over to our >> unless conversation? >> Unless there are more questions for the staff. >> Do you have any questions from council that they'd like to ask staff? >> No additional questions. Okay. I will now close the public hearing. And who would like to start me off? Mr. Adams. >> Oh, thank you, Mayor. Um, just an add-on to what Nick said, there's a uh on State Street, there's a 12story building called the Granada Theater that's been there for a century. So, there is some hype in Santa Barbara. And congratulations to all of you having survived the evening with us. Um, usually we're good for a snooze, but I guess tonight we kept it a little more exciting. And um, and I I tell you, I I got here in 1970. People love to say when they got to Thousand Arts. I got here in 1977, and a lot of you folks made me feel like a newcomer tonight. I couldn't believe some of the people from the 60s and and even earlier. Just amazing. And and like everybody said, thank you for coming out. We really appreciate it. uh the the character of the city is determined by folks like you. You're concerned. You're you're committed to the city. You care about the city. And uh we really appreciate hearing all your views, pros and cons. It's very important. And um I think you'd all agree this is a great city. You know, we um we're wellrun. We're we're affluent. Uh uh you know, you you could say we're a Cadillac of cities. And I'm not taking any donations from General Motors. I just use that as an analogy. But my my fear that on the dashboard the engine lights on, there's some things that have been building over the years that are starting to really concern me. And we've heard a lot of them tonight about the population in the city decreasing from 132,000 down to 121 over the last 10 years. You know, Chuck Cohen was here. He was a former mayor of the city. Uh he signed the original 1970 development agreement for the city and back then they projected 180 to 200,000 people to live here in Thousand Oaks. So I think you can see we came never came anywhere near that and the slow growth ethos is still alive but now we're we're regressing in population. We're also climbing in age. Back in the 70s, the median age was 22. 22 years old. Right now, it's 45 or 46, twice what it was back then. And I just um I I look at the school statistics as well from 22,000 students down to 15,000. I mean, schools depend on attendance for funding. And my fear is, you know, that the state funding could be in jeopardy if this these numbers continue to drop. You know, it's it's a virtual collapse. And I just feel like we're facing a a generational drain. I don't have any statistics behind it, but I have a feeling a lot of the loss has been young people. And listening to the you folks tonight, I think you would um would would agree with me on that. And um you know, Amgen came up a couple times tonight, as as most of you know, they uh just they're building a $600 million research and development facility next to where they already are. It's an incredible investment in the city of Thousand Oaks. This is this is a Dow 30 company resides in our city. They chose to stay here. They didn't move to Florida. They didn't move to Texas or any of these other places. But I tell you what, there's a there's a c there's a catch to that. And Bob Brad what what's Brad? Wait, Bradway. >> Yeah, pardon me. Bradway, the CEO mentioned in his remarks, he said, "We're going to build this facility and we're going to invest in Thousand Oaks." But now, Thousand Oaks, it's up to you. It's up to you. And I can tell you what he was talking about because I was in a meeting with some of these folks not all that long ago. And as I walked out, I said, 'What's the one thing we could do for you as a city? And I swear in unison, the four people there all said the same thing. Build us a downtown. It's hard to ignore Amgen. They're they're 10% of our workforce. They employ 7,000 people here in the city. And they need a downtown to attract young talent and and and retra retain retain and recruit. And and that that resonates with me. That that really does. I I don't want to end up in a long-term economic contraction. I know it doesn't look like it right now, but as a council member, I got I got to think to the future. And I got to think about the whole city, not just small portions of it. And you know, I'm afraid that if we're not careful, that's what might happen. We could have a shrinking tax base uh tax base and a generational um exodus. And I I I think that uh I think that this downtown that we're proposing may not be the end all and be all, but it could be the start of answering what I what I fear is is occurring here in the city. Uh you know, we need to breathe some new life into the city. We really do. Uh and I think that uh this downtown can help retrieve this lost generation. My my daughters are gone. If somebody mentioned Santa Monica, I have a daughter that lives in Santa Monica now. And not so much of because of affordability, but just just there's more to do there for young people and that's why she's attracted this city like that. So, and you know, for the for the folks that are skeptical of this project, I understand that. Uh I respect that. And but I'm hoping that if this is approved tonight that your skepticism will change to anticipation and and civic pride as we start to raise this project from the ground that you know this is something to be proud of. So there's something we can all rally around. So I hope you keep an open mind if this goes through tonight which I suspect it will. Um you we got a rich history at Thousand Oaks here. I I know I've been here a long time. I was here through all Kaneo Valley days and the parades and everything else and uh and we respect that past. We really do. But we've got to plan for the future at the same time. And I think uh as Akbar said, the beauty of this is we can we can have the best of both worlds. Our neighbor our neighborhoods are preserved. Our open space is preserved. And at the same time, we can take this little plot of land we have here, just this 16 17 acres out of 35,000 and build something that I think will be uh truly a gamecher for the city of Thousand Oaks. Um I think I think in this case growth enhances the quality of life. It doesn't diminish it. And you know, I've been around long enough through the 80s and beyond and how long it's taken to get to this spot. And I this city has been searching for a downtown for decades. And I think tonight we may finally find one. So with that, I I would like to make a motion. Uh I would like to uh move uh the staff report 10, the public hearing on the downtown 10A that is and staff recommendations one through three. I move that enthusiastically. Let my other council members chime in. >> Thank you, Mr. Adams. Mr. Newman. >> Thank you, Mayor. I want to begin with a word of thanks for all of you who have participated in this project, made your views known tonight and and throughout the entire planning process. You're for it, you're against it. It's so important that we hear from you and I really appreciate hearing from each and every one of you and from the hundreds of residents that that I've talked with about this. I also want to put in a special word of thanks to two members of our staff. I mean many people on staff have worked on this um but in particular uh Akbar Alakan and Kristen Rice um have made a really uh prolonged goodfaith effort to meet with everyone regardless of where they are on this. Some people have changed their minds. They were for it and then they're against it. Some people have gone the other way, but uh I I can say because I've seen it over many months that they've worked very very hard to meet people where they are and oftentimes uh concerns or reservations about the project are based on misunderstandings or or lack of understanding about what what the project actually is. And they've done their utmost to to explain that. and I I really appreciate that. So, thank you [clears throat] on going back to those hundreds of people I've talked with. Um I haven't really found a common thread in who's for this or who against this except one. Um it's not Democratic or Republican. It's not liberal or conservative. Uh the one commonality I've tended to notice is u older versus younger. Um almost all the younger people I've talked with are for this and many older residents and I count myself among them um have reservations about this. U so I want to start my comments with some things I don't like about about what we're doing here. Um I uh concur with Council Member Adams comments about storm clouds, economic storm clouds on the horizon. If if I have a problem with the affordable component of this project, if I were to vote against it, it wouldn't be because there's too much housing, but rather because there's too little of the type of housing in the income categories we actually need. And that that is by far our greatest unmet need in this category. I I wish that percentage was higher than 16%. I know it's higher than what we usually do, but but to put to put some data on this, we we've heard a lot of talk tonight about Reena. We we all every city in the state gets a quota and we're in the middle, we're just past the halfway mark for our current cycle. And you sometimes hear people say, well, we never build anything here. Well, that's not actually true. Um we're quite good at building luxury housing. We're only halfway through our cycle and we've already met 77% of our market rate needs per per arena, but at the same time, we've only met 5% of our lowincome needs. And low income is not poverty. It's it's a family of four making $126,000. So So literally the score is 77 to 5 right now. That that sounds terrible, but in the previous arena cycle the score was 614 to3. So we're getting better. Um I expect the gap to be smaller after this calendar year but but it highlights that we're not getting it done in terms of workforce housing and we need we need to fill that. We need we need to have housing for people who work here to be able to live here. I also share many residents concerns about the density. I'm not crazy about having sevenstory buildings in a city that has very few of them. I moved here from lower Manhattan in New York City where I was born and I lived for many years and I really like it here. Um I love how much green and open space there is. And the good news is we're not go changing one inch of open space by by if we approve this project. Um but this is much more dense. Now could we do do less? Yes. But then we number one two things would happen. One we would not be meeting we we'd be meeting even less of our needs on housing. Number one. Number two, we could solve this by distributing that density all over town. I I proposed this during the general plan hearings and there was not widespread public support for that. We had this village center concept. It got cut down from seven village centers down to two I think are currently in there. So, if there's going to be more housing and I think I I am a proponent of that. I've been a champion of addressing the housing needs we actually have which are which which are in this affordable category. We need to put that somewhere. And is this going to solve it? I agree with council member Adam. No, but it is something. It is a step in the right direction on that. The final concern I have on this, uh, there's been some talk about measure E, and one of the reasons we justify this being exempt from a vote of the people using measure E is that this is public land, and it is public land, and it may it may remain public land. I would like that very much. So, I want to propose a friendly amendment to Council Member Adams uh uh motion which is which is now out there not not to require public land but when we when we go to this next step which is to go to RFP request for proposal for developers that we get options on on two fronts. One one would be how does this work if the land remains public? We put private buildings on the on the land with long-term leases. That would be one thing. And then the other, as we've also discussed tonight, is the possibility of having some, not all, some of the housing here being condominiums. That's actually called out already in the staff report. It says that there could be condominiums as well as apartments. And I would I would readily agree we need both. So I'm not I'm not proposing a percentage of one or the other. I'm just saying when we go to get RFPs, I would like to have staff consider direction from council asking for options on public private and on condos as well as apartments. So council member Adam, would you be amendable to that friendly amendment? >> Okay. So when you're talking about condos, you're talking about along the boulevard. >> One possibility that Abar and I had discussed in a staff meeting was the possibility of that front building, the fourstory building, right, >> being condominium and the rear building being apartments. >> I don't want to design from the dis. So, I'm not I'm not necessarily requiring that one be all one thing and the other be the other. >> Um, I would like to see at least some condominiums in the mix. >> Okay. Now, are you talking condominiums for sale? >> Well, they be for sale. Can I make a recommendation and see if you're comfortable with this? Um, I love what you're saying. Uh, can we put it in there that we retain the option to do potential condominiums, potential land lease? Because I agree with you. The more of these things that be owned, the happier I would be. How do you feel about >> I'm an equity guy. I want I want everyone to have a pathway to equity. That's why I'm asking this. >> Are you okay with that amendment being in it? >> I'm I'm I'm getting to that. I I um I would definitely want to take a look at for sale options. >> Yeah. >> I don't want to constrain this because The market is going to determine what happens ultimately. >> Well, the only reason I would say >> but but I I do like the idea of equity building and a potential product for sale. >> The only reason I move towards making it an option just we don't know what we don't know yet. I love the idea of it, but how do you feel about putting it in writing that we want to see the options between potential condos, potential land lease? basically what do we have played? I'm even in fact and I'm actually even fine saying a preference >> that in fact is exactly what I'm asking. I'm not I'm not saying it must be >> okay. >> Um I I I'll make one more comment on that. But but >> I'm saying let's get some options in front of us and but but to do that my understanding from discussing this with Tracy >> and with Obar is is >> to have those options in there to be considered, >> right? >> Um staff would need direction from council. >> I like that. Mr. Adams, do you want to amend your motion? >> I I I totally understand that and and you're right. I think we can instruct staff to, as you say, present us with options, whether it's a long-term land lease or it's actual sale of the land, number one, and number two, uh, looking at apartments versus condo and for sale versus lease. >> Uh, I think I would like to know as much as possible about both those issues. So, I would be >> I I appreciate that >> amendable to adding that. >> Now, now I've said what I don't like about this project. Um, let me now say what what I do. Um, like on this young versus old part. Um, if you are a younger resident of Thousand Oaks, um, I apologize as an old person. Um, we've done younger people here dirty on a couple of counts. Um, we have a climate crisis that's gotten much worse in my adult lifetime. And we need to find ways to live in more sustainable ways and and this project is much greener than what Thousand Oaks was originally laid out in and will be much have a much lighter footprint in terms of consumption of resources. And we also have a real and growing problem of income and wealth inequality in this country that makes it harder and harder that that's what's driving our housing affordability crisis. This isn't just my opinion. This is ma mainstream people like Jamie Diamond, the CEO of of JP Morgan Chase. uh uh Warren Buffett uh Mark Beni off the co-founder CEO of Salesforce. These are people who have spoken publicly and at length about wealth inequality being a corrosive force. And that that's way above our pay grade, but it has a it has a local impact. It matters here what we do on housing. And if all we do is say to younger people, um, there's there's nothing for you here. There's there's no options, we're going to continue to essentially outsource uh all of the people who work here um at at lower income levels. This has already been happening for 10 20 years and there were many complaints about traffic this evening. One of the reasons for that, the one of the reasons 101 is a parking lot through Newbury Park and even small roads like Grimes Canyon Road going out to Filillmore is because there are people who work here who can't afford to live here and they are commuting to Thousand Oaks to work. We are not providing enough options for them and that's on us, our our generation. And I worry about what this looks like if we play this forward. To Council Member Adams point about a check engine light. We have an aging population. Um if you look forward 10, 20 years, that population is going to need more health care and they're going to be awfully cranky if the person who's going to provide that health care is half an hour late because they got struck in stuck in traffic and they all live outside Thousand Oaks. We need more options here. We need people who make our economy work, have options to live here. So, for all those reasons, um I'm delighted, council member Adam, that you accept the friendly amendment. >> Um and I will support uh the motion that you've made. Thank you. >> Who wants it? Mr. Angler, I'm choosing you. [snorts] I was trying to be, you know, the the gentleman. >> Dang, that was rude of me, huh? Oh, thanks, Ty. >> We uh we had a discussion over here and I'm it. So, um like everybody else up here, I appreciate the efforts of staff and bringing what um and people have to remember the ideas that staff was developing was developed on a lot of different inputs. One of them being from us on the dis. We had we gave them that direction but also a long history of people wanting um some sort of downtown. Um I I was reading uh those I hope you all read the hundreds and hundreds of pages of of the staff report but um in this is from the um uh specific plan 11 document in 1986. Um, it was proposed that the specific plan would authorize a mixeduse public private project featuring a government center, performing arts center, a public park, a hotel, offices, and retail complexes. That was from 1986. So, that's how far back this idea goes for developing this downtown idea. I've only been here 36 years. Um, I came in 1990. Um, when we came here, this building was being contemplated and it was it was a very controversial building. Um, but the downtown was the focus of that discussion in 1990. So, in in my tenure here in this city, it was part of the discussion. as as I was talking with staff and some of my colleagues uh along the way here, I've always been very interested in the viability of whatever we do here. Um I don't want to have something that is destined to be a failure. Uh I think we don't have to look too far for examples of that. It was mentioned several times tonight. The Lakes Project. Why is the lakes project never turned a profit? The lakes project was originally intended and was designed to be similar to the prominade, a lot larger, a lot more stores. So you get that density, you get that um those groups of people that would come together and make a vibrant uh location. That never happened because it was intentionally designed small by viability. I would rather heir now on the side of being a little bit larger than perhaps we're comfortable with so that we do not run uh a greater risk of a failure of our of our project. Um I agree with everybody. I've been here 36 years. A sevenstory building is something that I'm not used to. I'm not used to that idea. Um it's seven sto, you know, 95 feet because of where it sits on the on the hillside. Um it's seven stories, which is roughly 75 foot. So add the 20 ft, it's sitting up on the hill, you have a 95 foot face looking at you. That's more than what we're used to. But given given the amount of affordable housing that we're trying to get, given the amount of people we're trying to put into this area to get that vibrancy that we're looking for, that will support the theaters, that will support um the businesses, that'll support the restaurants and create that sense of downtown. Why is that important? Why do we even need a downtown? I heard somebody say tonight, why do we need that? Um, eight years ago I came on the council. Uh, the next day was a horrendous shooting at the borderline. People um, after that shooting really didn't have a place to gather. everywhere else in in cities across the country, if something bad happens, they go to the um down to the town square or they go someplace where they know it's just the place to be. Um we don't have that here. So, if we can create that by having this downtown um idea, I think it's I think it serves a good purpose for our community. I know there's hesitation. I I appreciate and I I want everybody to be hesitant because that will create a a a um product that has enough input to where it'll be a good product. Um just a couple of things. The affordable housing, um I do I do go by the state's uh fuzzy math. uh 24% not bad. That's that's two and a half times what we require in our city. Even if we go by the more possibly more correct math of my colleague, >> we we call it the actual math. Depends how you cut the apple. But um it's two it's one and a half times one and a half times our uh requirement. Uh one of my colleagues mentioned Amgen. Amgen is just one of the companies uh the college. The college has told people at the college told me they have they have trouble recruiting professors because when they come here they see I high property values, high rents, but no real sense of community. Yeah. >> Um, >> John Nunes told me that >> this is I mean we lost my my daughter-in-law's sister came here with her husband. They left because of the lack of offerings that we have here. They're now living down in Camaro near their downtown. So these these consequences of not doing these types of things have have have a real life real life effect. We have one of the one of the uh people I talked to about this uh talked about the opportunity loss of people turning their back on Thousand Oaks before they even know it. Um, I'm I'm trying to look to the future and figure out a way that we can capture those people as part of being a vibrant city. Um, I'm going to close with just a couple and thank you all for the letters. Um, I must have received I don't know, we all received o each over a hundred 150 emails. I tried to get back to just not as many people as I could. Uh if I missed you, I'm sorry, but I wanted you to know I appreciate the time you took to reach out to us. Um one of the one of the uh letters um said the question before us isn't whether Thousand Oaks should remain Thousand Oaks. It will. The question is whether we are willing to invest in our community, our community's future, so that our children and grandchildren can have the opportunity to enjoy the same quality of life that attracted many of us here in the first place. A thoughtfully planned downtown on 17 acres does not change the character of the three 35,000 acre city. It strengthens it. And then one other letter I I'll close with. Um it says that communities do not remain vibrant by standing still. They remain vibrant by thoughtfully adapting while remaining true to the true to and cherishing their core values. This project honors the vision that has existed for decades while creating opportunities for future generations to enjoy a stronger, more connected and vibrant Thousand Oaks. Yes, these buildings are tall. They have density that we're we are unaccustomed to. In my mind, the tradeoff is worth the ability to look to the future and create this vibrant community. I'd be happy to support the comment. >> Thank you, Mr. Angler. Mr. Gutierrez. >> Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to try to be as collected and concise as I possibly can, but um I feel similar to um a community member who was kind of peacemealing her comments together real time and that's how I feel. I had something prepared, but um uh yeah, just going to just if you would bear with me, I want to try to address a few things. Um, I I think I I really wanted to stress um some competing priorities in some of my questions and just some of the conversations leading up to this meeting for our residents and for um everyone who showed up. um because it was it was a a a reality for me. These are these were my questions. They were the learnings that I um you know I expanded my own capacity for understanding so many um layers of this project with staff, with community members. um you know, just personally reflecting myself um on my my experience growing up here in Thousand Oaks. And so I I too wanted to share some of the just some sentiments from the letters um that we received because I you know out the gate with the lines of questioning wanted the concerns to be addressed. That was really important to me today and I hope that we did a good job of addressing those concerns at at minimum you feel informed and that the conversation was had. Um but I think about uh the communities that may not even be represented in tonight's discussion. Um, and I won't say from who, but this is from a community member who really um, extends their gratitude to staff um, and the city actively seeking input from the disability community. Um, and she speaks paragraphs long of why that's important and how it how she feels her um experience and her family's experience is going to be um or was considered in this process and and her fingerprints are in real decisions that developed from these conversations um uh in community. and and she signs off withinclusion begins at the design phase. The downtown project is a powerful example of that principle in action. And it really stuck with me because I think there are a lot of principles in action as it relates to this project. Um, [clears throat] I think we we as a council listen really carefully um to concerns again um uh not not to say any is more important than the other just competing priorities and there's always going to give it give and take um uh when you're decisioning. Um I think we can all agree on that. Um so uh throughout tonight's discussion I found myself returning to the the broader question um what are the challenges we're trying to solve and what risks do we face if we choose not to address them. Um and again just reiterating our quality of life is not sustained by any one thing. It is the result of many interconnected factors. housing, economic [clears throat] vitality, public safety, fiscal sustainability, environmental stewardship, cultural amenities, and our ability to create places where people can gather, connect, and have a sense of belonging. And I I I wish folks would stay longer um to hear the comments and hear the staff responses to their questions and concerns. Um, but I appreciate people saying, "Hey, when you were campaigning, you said this and I I I want to be able to speak to my understanding, personal lens of what I mean when I uh say small town. Um, it is the feeling I got when Akbar acknowledged AYSO Saturdays at Kaneo Creek. um because that is part of my lived experience in Thousand Oaks. Uh soccer season is underway. We are getting ready. We're very excited. Um but it's the small town feeling is knowing uh parents, kids before I know the parents because I've coached them and then learning I went to [clears throat] school with their sister. That is the small town feeling, right? It's the um understanding that we collectively care. I think when you go to larger cities or maybe cities that I choose not to live in, that might not be the experience, but for Thousand Oaks, it very much still is. And it doesn't mean that there's some degrees of separation, but there's also a lot that connects us. And so, I just wanted to address that. Something else that I think was alluded to in the comments that I don't think represents our community well or um and I'll speak for my colleagues, correct me if I'm wrong, but also our um understanding and care of our um um our our older community members. um if if I personally um contributed to um the the the tension we feel or that maybe uh Council Member Newman alluded to of like the older needing something or wanting something or against and then the younger. I I don't I don't um I don't want to contribute towards that. Um I we had some celebrities tonight. Uh Mr. Brimhall was here. Um Chuck Cohen was here. These are or is still here. [snorts and clears throat] Um and these these are longstanding community contributors who had the foresight generate uh council members uh past to plant the seed to what we are discussing and trying to pull to through to fruition uh tonight. And that brings me to my last point. Um and again I wish there were more people in the room. This is not the last conversation. Please do not hear a vote uh outcome tonight and go away. Please don't. I am so energized when the chambers are full of uh of different positions and and lenses and and perspectives. Um and so just please stay engaged. Um we're extremely accessible um staff council um and so this is not the last time we will talk about this project and and all of that to say um I'm I'm I think I've said it more times than I'm probably willing to admit. I'm extremely supportive of the downtown plan. I I grew up here. I raising my son here and and [music] I want to um contribute towards the continued success of our community and I think that this project does that in so many ways. Um and I hope that we can um bring that to fruition. Thank you, Miss Gutierrez. And I think some one of the last speakers joked about this. What do I say now? Everybody's spoken. Um I guess on the theme, yeah, I was born at Tarzana Hospital and I spent one year in the valley before we came here. So I have that against me. Um you know, Tai at one of the breaks we were joking about, you know, being millennials and I'm tagged elder millennial for whatever that is. But it's funny because when we jumped into the job market, the job market was brutal for us right when we started. We we came out and things were bleak. And you I'm paying attention to the economy daily. What's going on? And one thing that we've been struggling with as a county is just what the rebound looked like after the financial crisis. We've been sluggish. And some of the things that everybody here spoke about, you know, wow, that was loud. You know, when we're looking at people leaving our city more than the cities around us, yeah, this is a challenge that we're all facing. I don't like that. I I that to me is not a sign of a thriving city. When we're looking at our population, you know, Mr. Adams mentioned it. The average age when the city was founded was in the 20s and now we've doubled. We're losing citizens. We have a housing crisis. These are challenges we have. And you know, I'm constantly thinking about the quality of life we have and and what that really means for us. The open space is phenomenal. Our roads are always paved. That might seem like not a big deal. I think it's amazing. You know, we look at job opportunities. We have job opportunities here. And I just want to make sure that we maintain something so important. Chief Paris, you guys, I'm so thankful for you guys. We're the largest city in the top 10 safest cities. That's not an easy thing to do. you know, raising kids here. I am so appreciative of everything you guys are doing. Grant Brimhol, uh, he didn't mention this, but, uh, maybe you recognize the name from the library. Grant Brimhol was our city manager for 20 years from 1978 to 1988. And I heard we're g gearing up for a 90th birthday celebration. Let's go. That's amazing. First off, I just want to say thank you for your time spent here. you are responsible for so much of the blessings we have today. And you know, just so you know, from me, I'm very grateful for it. Grant sent a letter in and something he said that that I thought was very relevant and definitely spoke to me. He said, "The desire for a vibrant downtown has been discussed and pursued for decades. In many key respects, I believe that the project before you represents the realization of object of of objectives that our civic leaders have been working towards for generations. I feel an honor to now be here carrying the torch for all the work that that you and the council members before us brought here. You know, we've had projects in our city that were challenging. They were hard for all the residents to to get on board with the to mall. That was a 3-2 vote. There was a lot of conversation about doing a mall. Westlake Prominade, somebody brought that up. Height with Westlake Mall. That was uncomfortable for the regional expansion on the hospital. There were a lot of concerns around height and traffic and noise to our residential. The biggest one for me was Dos Vantos. Dos Vantos was almost not built. The the Borchard Road was very controversial. That was a three-2 vote. I met my wife because my parents moved next door to her. I'm now living a life I don't deserve. A phenomenal wife, five children. That changed my entire future by that decision. And all that to say, when you think about what we get to experience now, we go to the mall for fourth of Fourth of July fireworks. We go to the annual Christmas lighting at the prominade. the hospital. I mean, gosh, to have that here in our community has been a huge blessing. You guys know my view on Dosentos that that's changed me. So, I think that's a really good example that our our history shows that this city has put a lot of intention on when we build things. And I think they have done a great job at that. The quality of life that we're all here to protect because we enjoy, it's the best in the world in my perspective. That's why we all live here. You know, just so you guys know where my heart is. When I graduated, I turned 18, all my friends left. There was maybe two. Akbar's one of them. And about 20% of them 20 years later after they got married and had kids came back. It wasn't that that many. And I hated that. I truthfully like I was bummed out by that because I did the opposite. I grew up here. I met my wife. We got married. We raised our kids here. My parents are here. Her grand her parents are here. We have all these grandkids running around and I am experiencing the coolest thing. I get to see my family not just on holidays. I'll get a call on a Sunday, hey, can we have dinner? I see them all the time. To have my grandparents and my grandchildren in the same area, I think is phenomenal. I want more people to experience that. So, that's a big part of my heart on why I think this project can help in a lot of the, you know, reasons why I brought up earlier. This is the biggest one for me. I want more and more people to experience what I am because I love every second of it. Now, what I was probably most encouraged by because we are talking about adding more housing. I'm going to talk about the height in a second, but when the assistant city manager brought up the map on uh the overall city where was all green, which is the open space, all yellow, which is the housing, and then the strip of purple around the 101 corridor. To see that that's not going to change at all by doing something like this, that's phenomenal. I I don't want any of the open space to go away. I don't want the neighborhoods impacted. I I'm enjoying that side of it. So, I was encouraged by that one. On the height side, you know, everybody kind of mentioned this. I agree. Going, you know, 90 feet. Now, that's uncomfortable for a lot of us. I, you know, somebody brought up the dynamic of the hill and it being 75 ft on top of the hill. I think for me, how I'm looking at this one is we've got a parking structure that's currently 85 ft. And if the decision is putting a building in front of it to mask it or making it go a little bit lower so we see it, I think masking it is a fine option. I think on this site it makes sense. Do I want to see that citywide? Of course not. But I think what was awesome is seeing that SP11 was adopted in 1989. This was part of the plan from a long time ago. Now, if you're, you know, where I live, I'm in Newbury Park, you maybe you're in Dosetos, you're in Dutch Haven, I'm on, you know, Kelly, and if you like the idea of taking the kids to the splash pad, maybe you don't have kids, you like going to the splash pad, or you want to go to the farmers market here, you want to go have dinner and then go see the show. Maybe you're younger than me, you have no kids, you just want to go grab a beer after work. All of that is going to be available to you. If you're in Newbury Park and that doesn't sound exciting, maybe you like more of a quiet life, you want to stay at home, you like walking, you like walking the trails, this does not impact your quality of life at all. We actually have, I think, a great pathway to enjoy all of it. We've got somewhere that brings the community together. We've got the youth that is very clearly excited about this and this doesn't make its way into our neighborhoods. I love that dynamic. I'm really excited about that one. I think at the end of the day, we have world-class open space. We have great schools here. We have great we have great neighborhoods. They were designed so well. And I think this project will only enhance the quality of life that we all know and love so well. So, I would finish that with there's a motion on the floor. I'm in support of it as well. Thank you all for being here. We're gearing up on 1 in the morning. You guys are all rock stars. So, with a motion on the floor, will the city clerk please call the vote? Council member Adam. >> Yes. >> Council member Newman. >> I. >> And that motion passes 5 to zero. And I have an uh ordinance title to read. An ordinance amending Civic Arts Plaza specific plan SP11 to create new sub area E to facilitate development of new pedestrianoriented downtown including mixeduse residential, hotel, commercial, office and entertainment uses, partial reconstruction of existing city hall, public amenities such as park, plaza, and outdoor amphitheater and in supporting infrastructure including new roadways, reconfigured utilities, and storm water management improvements SP2025-7001 and certifying final environmental impact report SQA 2025-70002 and mitigation monitoring and reporting program findings of fact and statement of overriding considerations applicant city of Thousand Oaks. >> Thank you. And before we move to city manager announcements, Mr. Angler would like to say something. >> Just a real quick uh comment. Uh and thanks to Akmar. He did a great wonderful job of hurting this thing through um at with unfortunately I saw a a uh uh he called out for his name of Akbar on online um and with the the uh accusation that he wasn't from here. Um Akbar has been in Thousand Oaks his whole life. As a kid, he was known as Aki and he ran around Newberry Park like all of our kids did. Even tonight, someone stated that he did not live here. Um, we we as a council have wonderful staff and uh, Akbar is one of the finest we have. >> [applause] [applause] >> Great work, buddy. I'll I'll attest to that. I met him before he turned 10. So, city manager, take it away. >> Yeah, I just I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge the unbelievable team that I'm so fortunate to work with here. Um, it's been mentioned already. Uh, Obar's efforts here have been herculean. Uh, he has put this on his shoulder since rejoining our organization. Not many folks know Aar and I had the pleasure of working together when he was fresh out of college and came when I started here 19 years ago and worked as an intern in our office. And to have it come full circle and to have that experience and to have this moment tonight with all the work that's been put into this is really amazing. Um, we have an incredible team, great consultant team that's been involved in this project. Um, and I'm not going to try to run down the list, but there's a couple I just wanted to call out very, very quickly. Um, Alexander South, our director of communications, has put our um all of her uh blood, sweat, and tears into our outreach efforts going back through the general plan and beyond. Um, and just done a fantastic job. Uh Justine Kendall was the planner on this. She was here earlier. She's out on maternity leave. She came in from maternity leave to do that. Um Jamie Boscarino on our our finances. Jonathan Serret on the balance of the arts. Um and Kristen Rice. Kristen's our planning manager. She picked up this case when we hired uh Justine to be our new economic development manager and she went out on maternity leave. Um this is Kristen's last hearing with us because she has uh a new position as the director of community development in the city of Aurora Grande and we're um really sad to be losing Kristen. Uh but what a remarkable last hearing uh with us and just wanted to say thank you for all those efforts. Finally, um I've been here for 19 years. I've been city manager for 10. Um, and I'm not many city managers get the good fortune to have a relationship with the individual that uh holds the record here. Um, and still to be able to call upon him and to be at a hearing almost 90 years old at 1:00 a.m. right now. Um, uh, so just a note of thanks to Grant for being that throughine for me always here. Um, as we continue to try to steer the community forward. Um, it's a really powerful thing and not many communities have that. So, I just wanted to make make sure we noted it. Um, with that, we'll be back here uh for our last meeting before recess. It'll be on the 7th of uh July. And I hope everybody has a nice rest of your very late night. >> And thank you everyone. I will now adjourn the meeting to the next regular meeting on July 7th. >> [music]

Good evening. At this time, I'd like to call to order the Planning Commission meeting of June 22nd, 2026 for viewers watching at home. Some members of the public may be participating via videoconference or teleconference. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Will the Secretary please take roll call? Commissioner Faris here. Commissioner Lanson here, Commissioner McMahon here. Vice chair Busse here. And Chair Tyler Kettelhut is absent. Okay. And so now we're going to have a comment from Planning Commissioner Don Lanson. Thank you chair. In my nine years of service as the Planning Commission, I've had the pleasure of working with many, many wonderful members of our staff, one of which is deciding to seek better pastures in Arroyo Grande. And I just wanted to thank Kristin Rice for all she's done for our planning commission and giving us such great information for our city. And I'm so happy for you. And Arroyo Grande is very lucky to have you. But again, I on behalf of all of us, I know if you guys have comments. Thank you so much for all you've done for us and for the city. Really appreciate it. Tonight we have with us Deputy Community Development Director Fabiola Melichar. Are there any written comments, announcements or continuances at this time? There are no continuance. We have a supplemental packet that has been distributed to the Commission and posted on the website. City's website. Now is the time for public comment. At this time, any person may address the Commission regarding a city planning matter that is not on this evening's agenda. Should the Commission wish to discuss an issue raised by a member of the public, the issue will be referred to staff for scheduling on a future agenda. Anyone who would like to speak under public comments must fill out a speaker card and chambers, or click request to speak on the agenda to receive instructions before the public comments. Portion of the agenda is called. The speaker's remarks should be addressed to the Commission as a whole, and not to an individual commissioner or staff member, unless otherwise provided by the Commission. Speakers are limited to five minutes. The screen will show you the remaining time you have, and we have one public speaker card. Roberta Nadler. Yes. The second one. And then state your name and your place of residence. Roberta Nadler and I live here in 1000 Oaks, and this was just a personal introduction to say hello. And this is my first planning committee meeting that I've ever attended. Though I grew up in the area, and I'm very proud of each and every one of you for all the time and dedication that you have put in to making our city wonderful. And I hope to see you at other meetings and learn more about the great plans you have for our community. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have the consent calendar with minutes of the May 18th and the June 8th, 2026 Planning Commission meetings. I have a correction or two. Okay. On the May 18th minutes. On page one, consultant Amanda Dahms is with BB K and on page five, consultants Melissa Peltier and Lauren Henkel are with RR M design. And lastly, on page eight, speaker number 26 is city of residence will be removed, leaving just city not stated. Do any of the my fellow commissioners have any comments or a motion to approve the consent calendar? Commissioner McMahon. I move that we adopt a. We vote to adopt the two minutes that are on the consent calendar got. I can't talk today. As revised. Yes. All right. Will the Secretary please prepare us for a vote? Commissioner Ferris. Yes. Commissioner McMahon. Yes. Commissioner Lanson. Yes. Vice chair. Busse. Yes. Motion carries five zero. All right. So next we'll move on to seven a open the hearing for 2100 Upper Ranch Road appeal. Will the clerk please open the public hearing? As required by law, is hereby open to consider agenda item seven, a appeal of administrative approval by the Community Development Department of Lot Line Adjustment PM202570009 between four existing lots of record lots two, three, four and 15 within tract number five 873, whereby lot two is to be increased from approximately 1.08 acres to 1.322 acres. Lot three is to be increased from 1.02 acres to 1.522 acres. Lot four is to be increased from 1.07 acres to 1.693 acres, and lot 15 buffer lot is to be reduced in size from approximately 7.02 acres to 5.644 acres, and the residential plan development, low density, single family RPG. 0.5 sf D zone located at 2100 Upper Ranch Road. The applicant is David Turnbull. The appellant is Nina's core. Sandy. Thank you. Presenting on behalf of staff is Community Development Tech one. Matthew Mateo, before we proceed, do any commissioners have ex parte communications to disclose regarding this item? If so, please identify with whom you spoke, their affiliation when the communication occurred and provide a brief summary of of the substance of the discussion. Okay, so. Good evening, Vice Chair and fellow members of the commission staff will be presenting tonight's item on an appeal of an administrative hearing officer's approval of a lot line adjustment. The request before you before the Planning Commission is to consider an appeal of the administrative approval. Approval of a lot line adjustment involving four existing. Lots of record within tract 5873. The appellant requests that the Planning Commission reverse the administrative decision. The original request, as mentioned previously, was for a lot line adjustment of four existing lots. The table provided shows the existing sizes of each lot and the proposed sizes post lot line adjustment. For some quick background. The larger subdivision of the estates at North Ranch, also known as Miller Ranch, was approved in 2014 through tract 5873 and other related entitlements. That approval authorized 15 legal lots of record, including 13 single family residential lots and two common area lots. One of those common lots is lot 15, which functions as the landscape buffer and is owned by the HOA. The current application was filed on December 1st, 2025 to modify lot lines affecting lots two, three, four, and 15. Notice of application was provided on March 12th, 2026, and during that notice period, the city received three opposition letters and because of that opposition, the request proceeded to admit to an administrative hearing on April 30th, 2026, where the hearing officer approved the application. The appeal was then filed on May 11th, 2026, and this Planning Commission hearing was noticed on June 8th, 2026. So tonight, the Commission is is considering the appeal of that administrative approval. During the notice of application period, staff received two emails and one written letter in opposition, which triggered the need for an administrative hearing. And at that hearing, staff presented the report and responded to questions regarding the scope of the request, emergency access, drain related issues and the applicable review criteria. A total of six speakers provided oral testimony. The applicant spoke in support of the request and five speakers wrote in speakers wrote in opposition, including neighboring property owners on Upper Ranch Road. In addition, one written statement in support was submitted by the owner of one of the affected single family lots. Testimony and support generally focused on HOA maintenance obligations, wildfire safety, landscape maintenance, drainage concerns and the proposed use of proceeds for infrastructure and landscape maintenance as well. Testimony and opposition focused primarily on the reduction in lot 15 acreage, the potential loss of the buffer, drainage concerns and the relationship between this request and prior approvals and private agreements. After considering the record, the hearing Officer approved the request subject to the recommended conditions, conditions and Sequa determination. And now I'll walk through the appeal statements and staff responses in three groupings. Appeal statements one through three primarily discusses the project Sequa exemption and asserts that the request either increases density or should be treated as a modification requiring supplemental environmental review. In response, staff concluded that the entitlement before the city is limited to a lot line adjustment among four existing lots. The request does not change the general plan designation or zoning of any parcel does not create any additional lots or building sites, and does not increase the number of permitted dwelling units in the subdivision. Staff also found that the application does not approve grading, construction or other physical development, and for that reason, staff determined the request remains categorically exempt under sequel guidelines. Section 15 305 A, which is a class five which applies to minor alterations and lasts in land use limitations, including minor lot line adjustments that do not create new parcels or change land use or density. Staff also reviewed the project for the Sequa exemptions and found that none apply. Appeal statements four through six focus on the history and function of lot 15. The appellant argues that modifying lot 15 conflicts with the 2013 Memorandum of Understanding, the 2014 staff report and project approvals, and the requirement that the HOA own and maintain the buffer area. Staff reviewed the MOU, the historical staff reports, the track map record and the applicable conditions of approval, and staff acknowledges that those materials provide important background and help explain the historic buffer function a lot. 15 however, staff did not identify an operative condition, city condition or municipal code requirement that fixes lot 15 permanently to its original acreage or exact configuration. Condition number 18 of track map 5873 requires that lot 15 be owned and maintained by the HOA, and staff's position is that this would continue after the lot line adjustment for the remaining area of lot 15. Staff also notes that the MOU is a private agreement and by itself is not a city adopted entitlement or regulatory standard governing the approval of this lot. Line adjustment. The request, therefore, must be evaluated under the applicable lot line adjustment criteria in the 1000 Oaks Municipal Code and for your reference provided is this. In this slide is the lot line adjustment map. The southern portion of lot 15 will be distributed between the three residential lots, as shown by the green lines, indicating the new proposed property lines for all four lots. Appeal statements seven through nine assert that formal drainage or engineering plans were not provided, that the lot line adjustment would directly affect the appellant's property and the buffer area, and that the request is unnecessary because other remedies may be available to the applicant. Staff's response is that the city review of this application is limited to the lot line adjustment itself. The application does not authorize grading, construction, drainage improvements, berm alteration or new development because no such work is proposed as part of this entitlement, formal engineering plans for drainage improvements were not required for review of this application. Staff also notes that two easements run across lot 15 and continue to constrain use of portions of the affected area, including a wastewater easement and a storm drain and maintenance easement. Those existing constraints remain relevant to any future use of the property. And with respect to the argument that the request is unnecessary, staff's position is that the availability of other private or financial remedies is not a controlling standard for approval or denial of a lot line adjustment. The city's review is based on whether the required findings can be made under under the municipal code and subdivision standards. And again, for your reference, I have provided an enlarged view of the affected lots. The highlighted orange polygons indicate the two easements running horizontal from east to west across all affected lots. Again, these easements will continue to remain in place and will be maintained by the responsible parties. Staff finds that the project is categorically exempt from Sequa under the guidelines. Sections 15305 A class five. Because it is a minor lot line adjustment that does not create a new parcel and does not change land use or density. Staff also reviewed the project for the exceptions to category exemptions and found that none apply. Staff also finds that the request satisfies the lot line adjustment criteria in section 9-3303F of the 1000 Oaks Municipal Code. Specifically, the request does not create additional parcels or building sites, does not increase density or development potential. Does not create the potential for further. Subdivision. Does not create circulation issues and remains consistent with the approved tentative track map. Applicable conditions of approval and the Thousand Oaks Municipal Code. With that, staff recommends that the Planning Commission adopt a resolution. Find the project exempt from Sequa pursuant to section 15305, a minor alterations in land use and deny the appeal, thereby upholding the administrative approval of PM 2025 70009. While this concludes my presentation, I as well, staff are available to answer any of your questions. Thank you. Are there any questions or comments from the commissioners for staff? Okay. Commissioner Ferris, thank you. Thank you for the presentation and the opportunity to review this with you. So a few questions here regarding the application for a lot line adjustment. Who who is applying for it? And there are, if my understanding, there are four affected properties, right? Who are the actual owners of those properties and are they applying in agreement with that? We have something on the record that shows that they are, in fact asking for this. Correct? I didn't see it. So I'm asking, and I hope in the applicant could speak as well. The main applicant is David Turnbull, the HOA president of Estates at North Ranch. And from my understanding, also with the application documents provided, the. For the three individual property owners, they kind of all. How do you say agree to this project for future improvements that are. That will take place of the site. So do we have something on the record that states that. I'm assuming Mr. Turnbull is representing the HOA as one of the property owners? Do we have something that states that the other other three lots, two, three and four owners are in agreement with this? Here's the reason I'm trying to figure it out. If my neighbor applied for a lot line adjustment for my property, I kind of want to be in agreement. Understood. Yes. So we do have in the application that each property owner consents to such request. As of right now, I do not have that document to provide to you. Okay, okay. All right. We'll go from there. I'll ask one more question. I'll ask for the commissioner to to go forward. As we stated before, the MOU itself is a private agreement. One of the things that we're limited to correct me if my understanding is correct, we're limited in what we can review based on state law on. Let me see if I've got that general plan, specific plan, applicable coastal plan, zoning and building ordinances, which lead to the conditions of approval and that kind of stuff. But that's kind of our, our, our box. That is correct. Okay. Can can you help me understand a little bit about condition number ten on the tentative track map approval, which states. All lots shall have minimum lot sizes as specified on the tentative map labeled exhibit A dated November 20th 25th, 2013. Can you help me understand how that condition. Very good question. That condition applies to the map as provided to the city at the time. That's to ensure that it meets the minimum lot size standards as specified in that RPD Development Standards Zone. That's make sure they they adhere to that standard. It doesn't lock them into being whatever size it is in that at that time period in perpetuity. It does require it does demonstrate that it meets the minimum lot size, and they cannot go below the minimum lot size that's specified in the code. So that's just reflecting the actual plans. Okay. And given that there are four properties here, three of them are in fact increasing in size, but one is decreasing in size. Is that something that doesn't doesn't confront this particular condition? It does not affect the condition. Yeah. The condition just ensures that it does not deviate or go below whatever the municipal code standard is for that lot, which is 7000ft■!S in the code. But these are obviously bigger because they're state lots. Okay, that's how I'll let me come back and give the commission an opportunity to ask other questions. Commissioner Lanson, thank you, chair, since we don't get many appeals, and I think as what Commissioner Ferris was kind of doing, I wanted to get a kind of a definition of what our standard of review, so to speak, is with regard to this process, to make sure that we're all understanding exactly what we're looking at and what is beyond our scope. The appeal before you is a obviously, in the staff report itself lists the appeal statements of the project itself is a lot line adjustment. That's a very objective review from a city perspective. There's certain metrics that a lot has to meet lot size, lot width. You know, the setbacks that are on a property that you cannot deviate from when you when you consider a lot line adjustment, we cannot create a non-conforming situation. So we cannot adjust the line. So it makes a setback non compliant. And factors such as that. So lot coverage and those things. So basically the planning commission's purview is whether or not these objective standards are being deviated from. And Mr. Duran could probably expound on that. Yeah that's basically correct. I mean the the review of the Planning Commission, it's de novo. So you're essentially looking at it for the first time based on all the evidence, but you're limited to what was previously discussed by state law. There's a limited number of factors that you can take into account. And essentially it's whether or not the lots that are being formed comply with the municipal code and any applicable specific plan in the general plan. Okay. And if if it is, then it's approved. If it doesn't, it's not okay. Understood. There's just one other thing. This is a ministerial act. So there's unlike a SUP or something. There's no discretionary review in this in this application. That's where I was going to ask that question. All right. So my second question you mentioned there's an easement further down. What is that easement cover. Not not the land but is it for a specific purpose or is it just a setback or what does it entail. Yeah. So one easement contains an underground water wastewater line with the maintenance responsibility proposed to transition from the HOA to the owners of lots two, three and four. And then there's also a secondary 20 foot wide easement for storm drain and maintenance that would remain under the HOA maintenance responsibility. Is there anything in that document or any other document you're aware of that would provide any kind of deed restriction with regard to changing the lot size? No. The only deed restrictions are is the limitations on development within the greater area of each individual lot. Okay. And then I have other questions, but it's for the applicant, so I'll save those. Thank you. Any other questions or comments. Okay. Commissioner Ferris thank you. Let me let me let me ask a few more just to get an understanding of what it is. You had mentioned that a lot line adjustments that are ministerial, they're sort of like, you know, the people coming forward and saying, hey, I want to kind of move, move some of the lot lines around. And you referenced that they were it's initiated by minor lot line adjustments, right? And there's some language within some of the conditions that we have here about things of things that are minor are done this way, but things that are more substantial come, come before the commission in its own in its own path. What in this particular case would like, where's where does the city make that dividing line that a request for a lot line adjustment is not, in fact, minor. It's something that needs to to go up so that I have an understanding of if it involved more than four lots, then then it would trigger the major modification. So that's the specific definition is that four or less. It's it's considered minor. That's correct. Procedurally there's a difference between more than four lots and four. Lots of the Map act actually excludes or exempts four less lots from being another map. So but that's the city's language when it uses minor and substantial. That's what that's how that's the the process changes at that point. Thank you. One, you did reference a little bit about this particular. I just want you to opine a little bit on this. You mentioned that this the does not lead to the potential for future development or subdivision. Can you just opine a little bit about what, what, what, what doesn't in this case? And what would if a lot line adjustment. Could you repeat the question? There are there are other there are evaluations that you have to make on the lot line adjustments to where. If it if the lot line adjusted allowed for future subdivision. In some cases, like like, then the lot line adjustment could be rejected. Correct. Like there's some lot, lot size issues, right? Lot line adjustments. Well, one that cannot create additional lots, there's no more intensity being created or established by moving the lines. There's no development being proposed at this time. We can't speculate as to whether or not there would be a construction activity as part of this review. So if someone comes in and they want to propose something in this area that would go through its own review and its own process at that time, with its own environmental evaluation and other aspects of the project review. But at this time, there is nothing proposed with this adjustment. So this is purely moving lines and there's nothing else being proposed. Okay, last last question I have was about there is a condition. It was sort of referenced in the responses to the appeal statements. I think it's condition 43 of the RPD permit relating to landscaping and privacy buffer. Would you like me to read the condition? That would be great, yes. So in writing it says lot 14 shall be owned and maintained by the homeowners association and shall be heavily landscaped with plant material to include native and non-native drought tolerant shrubs and trees. In order to provide visual screening for adjacent residences. Attract 4023. There was a typo in that tentative in that development permit condition, citing lot 14, when it should be 15 as tract 4023 just sits east of this subdivision. Okay, that that was one of the things I was going to ask about this. So the intent of this condition is to, is to provide conditions of approval for lot 15. That is correct. Is the intention that it only provide landscaping, privacy buffering for those to the west of this tract, or is it intended to. I don't necessarily know which of the neighboring adjacent residences are in tract 4023. No, it's intended to provide a buffer between all the adjacent properties. So lot 15 sort of creates an L shaped open space lot. It goes around and the appellant's property is one to the south. So it was not just the properties of the west. It was the property to the south. Okay. All right. Thanks. I'll wait for further comments after we hear from the applicant and others. Thank you. And now we ask for the appellant or appellants representative to speak. Can you please come to the podium and state your name and city of residence? For the record, your team will have 15 minutes for your presentation. Good evening. My name is Nina. Sandy and I live in Westlake Village. I'm here today on behalf of my property located at 2020 Upper Ranch Road in Westlake Village and my affected neighbors on Upper Ranch Road. My property abuts three acres in length with the south side of the ranch complex, which is the applicant and its proposed lot line adjustment application. Miller Ranch HOA will considerably affect my property because the contemplated LA is attempting to eliminate pretty much all of the buffer between me and the complex, altering the conditions of approval of the Miller Ranch development. If I can ask Matthew to just pull up that map that shows where my property is. Thank you. There are many points that were asserted by me in my appeal that have been made available for your review and counterarguments by the city and its staff. Report after review of the city's report, I continue to support my position and urge you to do the same for all the following reasons. There are a number of undisputed facts that are worth mentioning in this matter. It is undisputed that lot 15, which is the one that abuts my property and is the buffer between me and the Miller Ranch consists of 7.03 acres that can be seen on the tentative track map. 5873TTM 2010 dash 70187, RPD 2010 dash 7017. The Staff Report of 2014. The Staff Report of 2026, page three. Lot 15 is intended to be a buffer lot between the Miller Ranch development and the Upper Ranch neighbors. You can see that also in the staff report and the TT M 5873 land designation. You can also see that in the referenced MOU and the staff report of 2014 TT. M for the development and exhibit A six has a lot table that's described lot 15 as consisting of 7.03 acres and maps it. According to the development plans. This you can see in the supplement that was provided today. I have a enlarged copy of what the lot table looks like, because it's a little bit hard to see on that supplement if it's a regular sized paper, but basically it designates lot 15 as 7.03 acres. It also has the square footage, and it also has its use as vacant. And that was the tentative track map. Lot 15 is also demonstrated as 7.03 acres on the assessor's map. Lot 15 shall be owned and maintained by the Miller Ranch HOA. This argument has been brought up by by staff, but there's no dispute that it needs to be maintained by the HOA. No one's disputing that. Lot 15 was created as a buffer between the development and the neighboring properties. No one's disputing that every single document, including all the staff reports say, and designated as a buffer lot, that was a condition of approval. The development was approved with the size of lot 15 at 7.3 acres. Scope and purpose of lot 15 as a buffer. I'm happy to to review all the evidence as well. I have it written down, but for the sake of time I'll just leave it as here. If you guys have questions, I'll refer to it. The proposed lot line adjustment alters lot 15, so that there is almost no buffer between Miller Ranch Development and my property. And you can see that in the map that's posted up there. They basically are coming up to the berm, which is that's right there where the where the waterway goes. And there will not be a buffer between me and that complex. It'll be like, I don't know, five feet, six feet. Not sure exactly, but somewhere around there and allowing the applicant to go forward. The main question the city has to contemplate is whether the applicant should be able to circumvent all the information and evidence before it to proceed with its lot line adjustment. That is, should the applicant be entitled to disregard the TM for the development. The MOU between the parties, which included the city and Andy Fox's involvement, the intention of the community and the development and allowing the development to go forward, the previously resolved conflicts at the heart of this matter, and the good faith of the community, and balancing development and neighborhood integrity. When I met with the Community Development Officer and in reviewing the staff report, the city's main arguments in support of the applicant are as follows. Lot 15 is not bound by any lot size, so the city can allow the lot line adjustment and lot 15 well, TM 2010 70187 and the resolutions of 2014-003 and 004 state minimum lot size. All lots shall have minimum lot sizes as specified on the tentative map labeled exhibit A six dated November 25th, 2013, except as modified herein, that would be the item ten that Mr. Ferris was referring to. Lot 15 is listed on the lot map as TM number 5873, and it's listed with the acreage of 7.03 acres. With the square footage next to it, there are no modifications listed in the resolution altering lot 157.03 acres. Lot 15 is also mapped and listed on the assessor's map as 7.3 acres. Lot 15 parameters of 250ft and 100ft buffer are explicitly stated in the executed MOU and earmarked on exhibit A therein, according to this document. According to this city's argument, the city can argue to reduce lot 15 to 1ft■!S. There's absolutely nothing stopping the city from doing that because their principal is that lot 15 doesn't have a minimum size. Proposed lot line adjustment does not alter any development standards for the development, and is a minor alteration to the development of the property. So they are saying lot 15 is not prohibited by project conditions. Lot 15 was a condition to the development approval as a buffer, and the proposed lot line adjustment violates this condition of approval as a buffer lot between the development and the upper ranch neighbors. The proposed lot line adjustment is approximately a huge reduction. Almost two acres from its current seven acre buffer on the north side of my property. It eliminates pretty much the entire buffer, less the three foot berm that runs parallel to my property. This would run against the conditions of approval. Additionally, on TM 2010, 70187 page 31 The Conejo Open Space Conservancy, paragraph number 143 states Open Space lot. Lot 15 shall be an open space lot owned in fee by the Homeowners association. Staff also discusses future development, as the staff report correctly describes on page 12, this proposed lot line adjustment will change the development of the lots that are absorbing lot 15, as lot 15 would no longer be a buffer lot. It would be a part of the lots that would absorb it, thereby giving those property owners development opportunities in the future. That was not the intended purpose of lot 15 as a buffer and an open space. Lot 15 would. The city says lot 15 would still be owned and maintained by the Miller Ranch HOA. Again, lot 15 can be reduced to whatever the city says. According to their argument, the city states that there are no size restrictions on lot 15, even though every document from the TM to the staff report to the city of 2014 2026 and the MOU state its size. As noted on every document presented, lot 15 is known as the buffer lot between the development and the Upper Ranch residents. The purpose, size, and scope of lot 15 is what's at issue. That lot 15 needs to be owned and maintained by Miller Ranch is undisputed. This is the city's argument also that it can disregard the MOU because it was not a party to it or it's not a city document. The staff report admits that the city is aware of the MOU, not just the staff report. The 2014 staff report explicitly talks about the historical context of this situation and the agreements contained therein. The city cannot ignore this critical agreement between the residents development and the city, as the MOU acted as a settlement agreement between them. This MOU is the reason the development went forward in the first place. Having already prevailed against the development, the Upper Ranch residents, in an attempt to be neighborly, found a compromise entered into mediation with the developer and the city through the assistance of Andy Fox, where they were able to reach an agreement for the development. Lot 15 and its current parameters were one of the conditions of approval between them. If it wasn't for the MOU, Miller Ranch would not have been built for the city to disregard this through the passage of time, knowing that such a settlement agreement was a basis and condition of approval of the development would undermine the entire conditions of approval and the trust and integrity the community has vis a vis the city. The staff also says. But in looking at the MOU. The MOU allows, quote, minor alterations to the development that may be necessary. The loss of lot 15 buffer is not minor. Neither is there a necessity in this case to alter lot 15. While the applicant has stated that they would like to raise funds from this lay, the reality is that according to the city itself, any reason for the lay is to be disregarded when making an LA determination. In any event, raising reserves is something an HOA can do and it does not suffice as a necessity. The HOA has other remedies available to it to raise funds, including special assessments and the like. City Planning and Thousand Oaks shapes the community's physical growth, balancing development with environmental preservation. It is primarily driven by the Thousand Oaks General Plan, which aims to maintain quality of life and manage land use. If the city approves the applicant's lay, it will do all of the following. It's going to undermine the TM 2010 700 187. All the resolutions inclusive of exhibit A six, which explicitly states that all lots have minimum lot sizes as specified on the tentative map, with the tentative map designating lot 15 as consisting of 7.3 acres. It's going to undermine the actual conditions of approval laid out for the development, including size, scope, and purpose of the lots, including the buffer of lot 15. It's going to undermine the intent and purpose of lot 15 as a buffer, as a principle of the city's argument can basically eliminate the approved buffer between the development and the Upper Ranch residents. Since there will be no minimum lot size for lot 15, it's going to undermine the settlement agreement between the community and development, causing damage to the residents and undermining the integrity of communications agreements and efforts to be neighborly to new development in the area. It's going to undermine the Conejo Open Space Conservancy designation of lot 15 as an open space, and it's going to undermine the integrity of designations and track maps and city documents for conditions of approval, as they have been disregarded by any applicant's desire post development, disregarding purpose, intent and policy. I have asked the applicant to drop this application. He has declined to do so after carefully considering the damage that this loss of this buffer will cause. If the lot line adjustment proceeds, I will consider pursuing relief against the developments HOA in the city for impacts on my property and its value. As this application violates the MOU and California law. I'm available for questions. Thank you for your presentation. Do any of my fellow commissioners have questions for the appellant? Okay. Commissioner Ferris, thank you. I just want to clarify. I'm going to ask staff to confirm this on here. But from your perspective, the lot line adjustment and the green line, would that eliminate completely that portion of of 15 meaning that lots two, three and four would come right to that the edge of that? That's correct. Okay. I want to I'll confirm with staff to understand that. I just want to try and get a sense. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Now I would like to call up the applicant team. Please state your name and city of residence. Miss David Turnbull and I'm a resident of City of Thousand Oaks. Okay. So I'm going to provide a little summary of the lot line adjustment project and cover these main topics here background, proposal scope, use of funds, preliminary landscape concept that we've come up with, and then the community engagement summary of community engagement before the original hearing, as well as in between the original hearing of this hearing. So HOA background, the HOA was incorporated in May of 2014 by the developer of record at that time, CCR recorded in 2016, the first homeowners joined in early 2000 with the first five homes that were completed in that year. And I'm actually one of the first five residents that moved into the Miller Ranch development. HOA control transferred to the 15 homeowners and the elected board, myself and my colleagues here in January of 2020, for four years after I moved into the community. Prior to that, the developer controlled the HOA and all governance and decisions about HOA, HOA, common area, equipment, utilities, landscaping, irrigation, drainage were not well maintained during development of Miller Ranch. Our two. Westlake did not complete any improvements to lot 15 other than a portion I'll show later in the slides that on the west side that was partially landscaped. HOA Capital Reserve when we received it from the developer was at 54% of fully funded level based on the most recent association reserves report that was provided to us at the time we took over the HOA. So quite a bit short of its financial goals. The board, when we took control of the HOA finances and condition of the common area properties, we assessed and prioritized critical improvements needed and funding targets to complete these improvement improvement projects with a focus on wildfire protection, safety, security and beautification of our neighborhood. Lot 15 lands the undeveloped portions of the land, which I'll show in the slides upcoming, was one of the top priorities that we identified as particularly to address wildfire threat to our community, as well as the residents of Upper Ranch Road, which also abut up against lot 15. And then the HOA determined that the sale of a small portion of lot 15 would generate a portion of the income required to finish improvements on lot 15, as well as address some of the problems we have in our community. Next slide. So lot 15 land area is covered in previous presentations and discussion is an L shaped property shown in the slide here. And this Google map. And just calling out the portions here. Item number one is lot 15 which we refer to as lot 15 West side, which you can see from the Google Earth image is landscaped and there is trees, shrubs and ground cover and irrigation on that portion of the land area number two, lot 15, East side, which we call it is an unimproved land area, approximately 2.25 acres of land up to the emergency road and then area three down below, which is the LA area under consideration, is 1.36 acres. And that's also unimproved land. Unimproved land requires frequent fuel modification efforts. Since we took over the HOA responsibilities in 2024, we've done multiple clearances per year, including the one that's required by Ventura County Fire Department, and we're continuing to do so twice a year to keep the weeds in the brush and the fuels at the minimum possible. In 2024, the proposal was discussed with the board in the three adjacent homeowners lots two, three and four. We had an open discussion with them on the proposed sale of of portions of that land to expand the backyard space of their properties. And they they agreed in principle to the idea. So in 2025, we actually took the proposal to the entire HOA. We had a formal secret ballot vote, which was recorded in our meeting minutes in 2025. And the majority of the property owners in Miller Ranch approved this project to go forward with the understanding that the proceeds from the lot line adjustment would go directly to the improvement of area two of lot 15, which is the undeveloped land portion that we've identified that needs attention. And then after the vote of approval from the homeowners association, we initiated work with the civil engineering here in Westlake Village, Epic Projects and submitted our application to the City of Thousand Oaks Planning Department in November of 25. I'll skip over the project scope side because that was covered in the staff report. And I think in other discussions. So proposed use of funds, maybe a little hard to see on that screen, but hopefully your screens can can show it better. First and foremost, we would use the proceeds to fund the lot. 15 East Side landscaping, drainage and irrigation, referencing latest state regulations from Cal Fire, as well as the Ventura County Fire Department publications, many of which we found very informative to to proceed with landscaping really, really focused on wildfire prevention. All of our homeowners in our neighborhood, as well as neighbors I've talked to in Upper Ranch Road, that is a primary concern of everyone, obviously, in this day and age. Secondly, we would apply portions of funds to move the south fencing in the open area, south open area of lot 15 and relocate those fences with a setback from the what I call the cement culvert drainage area on the south border of our HOA common area and Nina's property that. That culvert cement culvert runs from our main entry all the way to a detention basin on the west side of lot 15, adjacent to Upper Ranch Road. So we as an HOA still have responsibility to maintain that culvert and make sure it's clear and flowing properly for all storms. A little closer up, look at the landscape concept for the east side of lot 15 that we've. We worked with the landscape architect on key design features of the two and a quarter acres is first and foremost installing Bioswales to direct water running off of this fairly steep sloped land directly into already installed V ditch that flows into our detention basin for retaining all stormwater. That's the first step. Second would be installing California native trees, shrubs and ground cover in the property to help stabilize the soil, prevent the growth of invasive species. And to do all this in in compliance with Cal Fire, as well as Ventura County Fire Department publications, we'd also put a seed mix of ground cover. There are some new ground covers being developed in the landscaping industry now that are fire ignition resistant. That would help keep the invasive species out of this land, and all of this would be tied into a 100 irrigation system that already exists for our West Side landscape portion of lot 15 that has a master valve shut off and flow sensing to prevent water waste. And lastly, community engagement, which I took really to heart at the at the April 30th meeting. But actually prior to that meeting, I connected with Michelle Fatah and Randy Whitt of the Westlake North POA that manages all of the North Homeowners common area properties, but manages that 461 homes. I believe it is in the West Lake north POA. I met with him on site to review lot 15 and to show them why we were doing this project and what we were going to do with the proceeds in improving the land area that's undeveloped. And that was a very productive discussion at that time. Then April 30th, we had the public hearing. The meeting concluded with the staff approval recommendation in immediately after the meeting, we met in the hallway with all of the upper ranch neighbors that spoke in opposition to the project, and it was the first time I actually heard all the feedback that they had. So we we agreed to meet the next day. So we met on May 1st at the West Lake North Community Center in North Ranch, and we met with the neighbors. We listened to all their issues were. We said, thank you very much for this detailed feedback. We understand your concerns. We would like to address them. Give us a few days. We'll come back to you. We met again on May 6th. We met by Zoom in that meeting and I presented, there was three main issues one protecting lot 15 from further development. And I referenced not only our CC but the TDM and the RPD for for the Miller Ranch development. And I said, I everything I see here, I'm not an expert, but everything I see here clearly prohibits us from doing any further development of lot 15. Our main purpose is really landscaping and stabilizing the undeveloped land, particularly in the case of severe winter storms. So that was number one issue. I said we were very confident that this will be protected land area, not for not just for our period of home ownership, for, but for future generations of homeowners in our development. The second issue was one of the homeowners called out excessive use of the emergency road access, which exits out onto Upper Ranch Road, and they said delivery trucks and contractors and community services were flowing out of that gate, and they understood it to be a restricted gate for for fire department only or for evacuation of our neighborhood in case of a wildfire. I, I admitted to them that I had seen the traffic. It actually flows past my house, which I actually own. A portion of the emergency road at the top intersection with Miller Ranch Drive, and I can see it from my house when I'm when I'm outside watching the traffic flowing around the neighborhood. So I said, we will absolutely address this issue with the city's approval. We'll put up permanent signs. In the meantime, we will block access to the emergency road with traffic cones and a very clear warning sign to keep people off that road. And we put that out about three weeks ago, and I believe the traffic has been eliminated from that road. The third issue was Nina had brought up a request to provide landscape access to her property in exchange for giving up the buffer space that we were proposing to transfer to the existing homeowners. And we did have meetings on that May 8th as well as May 19th. She sent us a concept drawing for that maintenance access, and we provided some feedback. And we haven't completed the the discussion on that particular item. That's my presentation. I'll entertain any questions you have. Thank you. Do any of my fellow commissioners okay, Commissioner McMahon. Yes. Excuse me. I want to further understand what Nina meant about maintenance. Access to her property. She. Maybe she's better to explain that than me, but would you like to explain it? Yeah. Yes. My property runs very long. And so when I have gardeners and we want to do our our brush cleaning and I have mature trees and, and such on my property, they have to come from upper ranch and go all the way to the end of the property to be able to clear that debris. So I did speak to David and say, you know, this is an issue for me. So we tried to find a workaround where I was trying to find an access through the back of my property. It didn't work for them. They came around and came up with another idea to go through the side of my property. It didn't work for me, so we just left it at that and that's it. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay, now we will go to public comments. We have one public before we get to public comments. There's a rebuttal time for the appellant of five minutes. Okay, Nina, you have five minutes. I just want to ask a question. Does this is a little bit different than standard public hearings. But normally the appellant has the rebuttal at the end. Staff usually provides comments responding to some of these things. Then there's the rebuttal. Is that different in an appeal? I just want to make sure. I'm looking at the rules. It's it's not clear specifically on the timing of of that. I mean, I if you would prefer to have public comments before the rebuttal time, that's fine. It's not a matter of preference. I think usually they've you've got a I think you've got a guide. Right. That kind of helps you knowing which, which goes first. And I thought it was the, the applicant or the appellant. In this case, the applicant has an opportunity to. Then we're going to hear public comments and then staff rebuttal. And then I'm assuming we'd hear from the appellant again as a final rebuttal. That's at least what I remember is the standard order. So that's why I'm asking the question. Yeah. Again, I mean the rules that I have aren't aren't specific on on the timing between those two things. So if you would prefer to have the rebuttal time be after public comments, that's fine. I would, I would just, I would think prefer to stick with the standard format unless we've, unless we've got a reason otherwise. So. So I think having the public comment go first that way, both the applicant and the appellant can do their rebuttals. And. But prior to the rebuttal, should I go to staff for follow up comments? You can do that. Yes. Okay. So we're going to go to the public speaker card. Will Chandrakant Patel please come to the podium and state your name and city of residence? Good afternoon. My name is Chandrakant Patel, neighbor of Upper Ranch Road. One of the comment I have everything they presented to do the lot line adjustment. They can do whatever they need to do without the lot line adjustment. So why? Why even start with the lot line adjustment of something that we have agreed upon many years back with a compromise between the builders at the time and the residents of the Upper Ranch Road and North North Rancho Association. So now, after so many years, they're coming back and they're asking for a lot line adjustment of. Lot 15 from seven acre to down to maybe five acres. If they continue to do that, the value of our property will come down. You will not have the same appearance and the same value that we have today. So I oppose to the lot line adjustment. Thank you. We'll now go back to staff for follow up comments. Yes. So first I'd like to acknowledge the appellant's statements. The lot line adjustment is more so a change in ownership in regards to the buffer area. Again there's no construction being approved with this application. The buffer area is still is in effect with the current development limitations of the subdivision of Miller Ranch. And if you'd like commissioners, I could state the specific conditions as such. Again, due to location of these of the easements I mentioned previously and the other development limitations associated with them. Staff would not likely support future development proposals within these easements within these easement areas as well. This is also there was a proposed development happening in close proximity. It has the potential of eliminating the fuel modification requirements, which actually states that the there has to be at least a 100 foot fuel mod buffer area from the edge of the grated development pad of each single family residential lot. In regards to the MOU, again, staff's analysis is that the MOU is a private agreement between the private parties, which were the original developers and the residents of Upper Ranch Road. That being. And again, it is not a city adopted entitlement regulatory document or a condition of approval because the city is not a party to the agreement, it cannot serve as a basis for approving or denying this application. Staff's review is instead is based on the city's adopted approvals, code requirements and the subdivision regulations. And to note regarding the MOU in the original development proposal, the applicant of Miller Ranch requested Mayor Pro Tem Andy Fox to serve as a facilitator slash mediator for the meetings between the residents and developers as due to Fox's previous experience regarding mediation between owner and tenants of a mobile home park and city wide rent control process, he was only acting as such as a mediator. As a mediator. And to go into the comment regarding the assessor's tax map identification of lot 15, the numbers are there as descriptive terms. They're there to reflect what was recorded to the Ventura County Clerk with the final tract map. Again, with this lot line adjustment, should it move forward, that change will also get recorded by the Ventura County Clerk and then reflected as well in the tax assessor's as well. And again, as such, yeah, there is multiple conditions laid out regarding within the entitlement for the residential plan development and the tenant attract map. While the corners of the HOA are not an enforceable law document by the city, I did review them as well. And a lot of the limitations of said CCR kind of looped back back onto these original entitlement conditions. So while the certain proposals might get passed through their architectural design guideline review, ultimately, once they come into the city for review, we will review each application regarding the subject development limitations within the Miller Ranch subdivision. And lastly, I do just want to acknowledge and really thank the applicant, David Turnbull, who has been pretty tremendous in this. This was kind of his first go at this and trying to understand and being a responsible person as an HOA board president. So he did spend a lot of time, and I kind of did also spend time with him, educating him and such on certain limitations of what can and cannot be done. And I know he and his HOA are kind of beginning to learn, and they've been trying to ask me plenty of questions of what can be done, because they do not want to violate any city conditions. And I know his talks with the residents of HOA kind of build this neighborhood trust and future relationships moving forward. Thank you. If I could just augment his comments, the there was a comment made that the. The open space buffer lots can be reduced down to up to one square foot. And there's an intent behind this buffer area. There'll be a process to request reducing that square footage. We evaluate that request if it comes before us, but reducing it down to one square foot obviously would not meet the intent of providing a buffer between the upper ranch homes and the the homes at Miller Ranch. So that's not before us. They're not requesting anything besides what you see, see in front of you. So if they do again, if they do want to pursue something more, that would be reviewed and the process would be exhausted as it is tonight. Thank you. So questions for staff from the commissioners, Commissioner McMahon. So that whole development, what is the minimum lot size for the actual development? And then does lot 15 have a different minimum than the rest of the lots? So we review in the case of future adjustments, we review them under the RPG residential plan development standards specifically. Pardon me. Section 9-4904 Development Standards, subsection E as usable open space and recreation requirements, pretty much stating that there should be an average lot size of 5500ft■!S. So that would be the criteria that we would be regulating that they cannot reduce any further. Commissioner Ferris, thank you. One question I did ask the appellant, but I want to confirm it with this. The actual specifications of the lot line adjustment itself. So the southern lot 15 has this L the lower part southern part of the L lots two, three and four would be adjusted to extend into that. My question is is that does extend all the way to the most southern part of that. In other words, fully eliminating that that part of the L. That's what I'm trying to trying to get. I've heard some conflicting things. That's correct. Commissioner. With the adjustment, the new proposed property lines for each residential lot would abut directly at the appellant's property. Okay. That's helpful. So then in that context, I want to see what how does this affect the RPG condition 43, which is about the landscaping privacy buffer, as we said, is the intent of that is to provide buffering to the adjacent residences. And it states that this shall be heavily landscaped with plant material to include native and non-native drought tolerant shrubs and trees. So is that condition going to then go to the owners of lot two, three and four, or does that have the does the lot line just have the effect of eliminating that, the need to comply with this condition of approval for that portion of the buffer? It would eliminate it for these three residential properties. All right. Thank you. I have a question. So when Andy Fox acted as the mediator, he was representing the city or. No, Andy Fox at the time was excuse me, he's a certified mediator. So in that capacity at the hearing, the from the dais, the city Council deliberated and thought appropriate to use his skills as a mediator since he successfully mediated the mobile home park closure on a road. If anyone recalls that the mobile home park obviously a very contentious thing to have happen to the residents there, and because as success in that mediation that the council at that time thought it'd be appropriate to use the skills, mediate the the concerns between the Upper Ranch homeowners and the Miller Ranch developer. And they came to an agreement. But in his capacity as acting as his mediator, but not a representative of the city. Okay. And so then the agreement reached is between the two parties does not involve the city at all, the MOU. Yeah. That's correct. The city was not party to the MOU. Okay. Yeah. Let me just add one point to that. I want to make sure that we're clear here that the city is not a party to that agreement. Okay? That's why it's not subject to the terms of that agreement. So the only entities that are subject to that agreement would be the HOA here, the applicant, and then also the HOA for with the appellant lives. Like who is that agreement between. I'd have to double check to look at the the agreement. And so I don't know who like was ultimately listed as the the party to that agreement. But to be clear, it's not it's not the city. Okay. And, you know, under state law, that's the that agreement is not something that the city can take into consideration with regard to approving or denying a lot line adjustment. And we can't enforce it either. The MOU, we have no enforcement ability over that. That is that is a separate agreement between two separate parties. Okay. Okay. Now, will the appellant please come to give your rebuttal? You have five. Oh, sorry. One second, Commissioner Lanson thank you chair. Sorry, just a few quick questions for the staff. I noticed in looking at some of the background documentation there is the MOU. And then there's a other agreements agreement on the time period for rough grading. And it actually has a provision at the top saying recording requested by. Do we have any knowledge that any of these documents were actually recorded against the properties? We do not, but I believe what you're referring to is the rough grading. There was some under my review of all the pertinent historical documents. That was some type of agreement that happened between the developer and the residents of Upper Ranch Road. There's some conditions that stating that grading has had to commence during one phase. So I believe that that document kind of reinforced that. And did the city have any involvement in that grading agreement? No. And just to follow up on one issue, I and again, I believe Mayor Pro Tem Fox did not participate in the vote on that hearing. Would that be correct? I think okay, I don't believe he did, but I didn't know if he did not he did not participate. He recused himself. That's all my questions right now. Thank you. Commissioner McMahon. So I'm sorry. I need to go back to what was talked about before. So the city required the buffer zone? No. That was discussed between the developer and the existing residents of Upper Ranch Road. So the city essentially did not care one way or the other if there was a buffer zone. I can clarify that as a result of the mediation between the homeowners and the developer, they came to an agreement to revise the track map to include the buffer area. So the developer requested the buffer area. The city did not require it, but then by condition, we say that that would be an open space buffer lot between the properties on Upper Ranch and the developer's property. Well, that's speculation, but had he not put in that buffer zone, would the city have required it? No. Was that we were moving forward with the recommendation for approval of the project as it was designed. The mediation obviously changed that and became a new project was presented to the to the staff. So it had originally been okay with the city to not have the buffer zone. And then they added that. Is that correct? Correct. I do want to preface, we don't have an attachment showing it, but the original concept of Miller Ranch actually had residential properties abutting the neighboring properties of Ranch Road, and that was appealed of concern by those neighbors. And then ultimately they discussed and then they redesigned. I see, okay. Thank you. Okay. Now the appellant may come to the lectern and you have five minutes to rebuttal. Thank you. I just want to address quickly the staff report of 2014, just by way of what you guys are discussing right now. I've attached it to the appeal. But on the on page two, it gives a historical background where it's where basically what had happened is the staff report had voted against the Miller Ranch project. You could see that in the findings of that report. So this project was set not to move forward, not to move forward. And that's why the developer sought the help of Andy Fox, because the development wasn't going to go forward as proposed. And that's when the neighbors of Upper Ranch decided to be neighborly, come forward and find a resolution that included density, less number of lots, the buffer space, all of that that is actually in you guys own staff report of 2014. So if you want to take a look at that, it's there on, on the beginning pages where they're talking about the introduction. And it talks about the tentative track map. I highly advise you look at that because that was, after all, the mediation gives the information about what has happened. Okay. Okay. A few things came about in in the staff report of this last hearing. Staff has asked us to disregard any reasons for the lot line adjustment. So if that's the case, I know the applicant has brought in a lot of information about what they're going to do with the proceeds and what their plans are, but the reality is that all of that, even according to staff, should be disregarded. It has to go based on the law line adjustment and the conditions of approval. So the other thing is the the proposed use of funds. Again, that that's also should be disregarded. And according to staff's own report, the native shrubs and the fuel modification, all of those are already in the conditions of approval that their HOA has to abide by. This is nothing new. Wildfire is something everybody has to protect their property on, and including the shrubs and the modifications. So that's not something in excess of what they're doing. It's actually their responsibility to do that. According to the conditions of approval, the easement that staff discusses the easement is belonging to the HOA and the homeowners. So staff says that they need to get approvals. Well, it's on their own property. Getting an approval on your own property and vis a vis your own HOA is really not difficult. And the discussion about future development, future development is very likely in this situation. While they say that it's not before us right now, staff's own report says we'll deal with that another day when it when it comes up. But the reality is that if you get rid of this buffer, then other laws can kick in to basically develop this property, which is completely against the entire intention of this buffer lot. With regard to the MOU, again, I really recommend you look at the 2014 staff report and take it into consideration because it says a lot about the involvement and the reason why the developer asked Fox to be involved in this. And the city knew about this. The city referenced it in their staff report, you know, to come now and say, oh, you know, we can't consider anything. It considered it, then it discussed it, then it was going forward with development. Then now all of a sudden we're coming and saying, well, we can't consider this and we have to disregard it. It's not very kosher. And then the staff discusses the cars. That's private to that. HOA has nothing to do with any of us. I'm not bound by their csns and neither are you guys. So you know, that's that's that's up to them. And lastly, the intent of the buffer as a homeowner and someone who bought that property with that buffer and the entire integrity of the community enjoys that buffer and has fought for that buffer, I think that should definitely come here with all the evidence of the TMS, the lot sizes and the intention, scope and idea of what lot 15 means to all of the community. Miller ranch does not need to do this. They have other options and their drainage and their water. And Westlake North HOA is did also appear and look at it and say, you have to take care of these things. Okay. Thank you. So at this time, do my fellow commissioners have any questions of anyone? Okay, so then I will close the public hearing. Before we do that, can we make sure that there's no public speakers other than the applicant and the appellant? Yeah, that's. Is there a public speaker? Okay. Okay. So No, no. Okay. Commissioner Lanson thank you chair. It's it's again, we're not used to doing appeals from a process. This is a difficult situation and made more difficult by a history of documentation that is not as clear in some areas as the parties may want it to be. What I look at is, again, our first and foremost thing is our job, which is to not act as a legislative body, but to enforce our rules, codes and regulations. The discussion tonight and the report and the information I haven't found necessarily that the staff's initial recommendation or initial decision on the administrative hearing was improper with regard to enforcement, those rules and regulations, it looks like they have adopted, again, our rules in terms of a minor modification, applying to four units or four properties or less. So I don't see any violations of that that would necessarily push me in that direction. What I also notice, and the appellant wants us to kind of look at interpreting the process, to insert a lot of terms that were maybe discussed but not necessarily put into action. You know, at the time, the MOU, there is no provision in there indicating that it applies to successors and assigns. It doesn't say this is in perpetuity, so to speak. There is no deed restriction that accompanied the MOU to make sure that it was clear that this was going to be a permanent prohibition against any building in that area. Whereas, in the grading document, which I asked about, there is a successor and assign section which made it applicable to future owners. There was an indication that it would be recorded, which again gives some indication that was supposed to be permanent. But again, the MOU doesn't have that permit. And in fact, it says it's for the specific purpose of getting this project approved, not necessarily creating a permanent evidence to add to what is believed or hoped would be that part of the deal. But at the end of the day, looking at the actual documents, I don't see that we have, in my opinion, the ability to act above and beyond our executive body function to fill in those missing gaps with that additional information, to say that ultimately, oh, there was a permanent intent to have this be a buffer of 7 or 7 acres and keep it as a permanent issue. I don't see that. And again, to me, it seems that, again, the city made the decision correctly with regard to application of our codes, rule, codes, rules and regulations. So if it's okay, I'll go ahead and make the motion. As I go back to the top, I would move that we adopt a resolution denying the appeal, thereby upholding the administrative approval of PM 2025-70009, including finding that the project categorically exempt from the California Environmental Quality Act guidelines pursuant to section 15305 A as a minor alteration in land use limitations. Okay. Will the Secretary please comment? Sure. Go ahead. Commissioner. Thank you. I, I am in complete agreement with what Commissioner Lanson has provided us in, in the sense of this is a very. With the exception of one small part. And that'll be where I get to. In the end, the main. We are, I think, quite limited in what we actually can review. And the. The challenge of. I think staff rightly points out staff reports and the MOU are exceptional context for us to understand how we got here. This. If you look at the history, this. I think I actually sat on the Planning Commission when the first when the first proposal came before it. Environmental review, pre zoning, because this was a piece of property that had not yet been annexed into the city. So it was going to be okay. Like if you all decide to annex it, this is the pre zoning and the approvals that eventually went up to up to city council. And it stated, I think slightly differently than what the appellant said is that the the city didn't deny it. They just chose to continue the hearing because of a lot of the things that happened that eventually led to the changes and the mediation and a variety of things that eventually was approved in 2014. Then they went through the annexation process and all that other kind of stuff. So there was a there was a lot going on here with this particular particular case. So it is it is pretty unique given the limitations we have. Lot line adjustments are ministerial. They're very limited in what we you can actually do with them what we have the ability to review, which is limited to our own zoning and building ordinances. And that leads us to whether it's consistent with the conditions of approval. I, I agree with the exemption. I agree that it doesn't add parcels. I agree that it doesn't increase density. The nature of this would wouldn't go beyond the 0.5 units per per acre. The density, the potential for further subdivision. There's a condition on it, but I don't I don't see that there is real potential for subdivision circulation issues are not there. The one I have a problem with is being consistent with the the conditions of approval, and it's mostly with the requirement for significant landscaping in this buffer. The whole all the background tells us there was a reason why this was done and. And the why the applicant at that point made all the changes and why that condition was put in as part of the RPD. And by, by the lot line adjustment itself would actually change the conditions of approval, eliminating the need to even put this landscaping in, which we've talked about was the purpose for why that was there. I'm going to vote against it, but it is extremely narrow. There is so much here that I wouldn't be able to to have a challenge with the minimum lot sizes, all that other kind of stuff that we talked about I think is, is consistent. But this is the part it changes the conditions of approval. So I can't make that finding. So for that reason, I would vote against the motion. But there's all sorts of reasons why what Commissioner Lance has put on the table, I think, is in line with with a decision to vote for it. Okay. Well, Secretary, please prepare us for a vote. Commissioner Ferris no. Commissioner Lanson. Yes. Commissioner McMahon. Yes. Vice chair. Busse. Yes. Motion carries three one. Commissioner Ferris, dissenting chair. Tyler Kettle hat absent. Any aggrieved party who wishes to appeal the Planning Commission's decision may do so by filing an appeal with the Community Development Department within ten days. Okay, so moving on. Department reports we have no department reports this evening. Commission comments and a B 1234 reports. Now is the time for commission comments and or any a b 1234 reports. Are there any comments from my fellow commissioners? Okay, miss Elia, are there any follow up items, announcements or upcoming issues? Thank you. Chair. Tomorrow night at City Council meeting, the Community Development Department will have the downtown project public hearing that you heard at your May 18th Planning Commission meeting and a plan check and inspection for consultant contract for the Building Division on the consent calendar. On July 7th, there will be the second reading of the Downtown Project on the consent calendar. If approved tomorrow night. Upcoming items for Planning Commission schedule. On July 6th, there will be a public hearing for a proposed addition to a single family residence in the 1400 block of El Verano Drive, and a public hearing for a proposed religious assembly use in an industrial area on Lavery Court, and that it's all for upcoming items. Thank you. Thank you all. We will now adjourn to the next meeting on July 6th, 2026 at 6 p.m.